Billboard Hot 100: 11/23/2024

[leonagwen]

[dremolus - solarpunk]

BUBBLING UNDER
#1. PARTYNEXTDOOR - Dreamin (DEBUT)
#2. Tim MccGraw - One Bad Habit (DEBUT)
#3. Ty Myers - Ends of the Eath (RE)
#4. Paris Paloma - labour (RE)
#5. Gabito Ballesteros, Natanael Cano, Neton Vega, and Luis R Conriquez - Presidente (+2)
#6. Ella Mai - Little Things (DEBUT)
#7. George Birge - Cowboy Songs (+14)
#8. Parmalee - Gonna Love You (+10)
#9. Zach Top - Sounds Like the Radio (+5)
#10. Dylan Marlowe and Dylan Scott - Boys Back Home (+10)
#11. Redferrin - Just Like Johnny (+2)
#12. Brandon Lake - That's Who I Praise (+10)
#13. Tito Double P and Chino Pacas - Escapate (-3)
#14. Julión Álvarez - Regalo de Dias (RE)
#15. Alex Warren - Carry You Home (RE)
#16. Shakira - Soltera (RE)
#17. GloRilla - LET HER COOK (+8)
#18. Keith Urban - Messed Up As Me (RE)
#19. Grupo Frontera - Hecha Pa' Mi (RE)
#20. Elevation Worship feat. Brandon Lake, Chris Brown, and Chandler Moore - Praise (RE)
#21. Tyler Braden - Devil You Know (RE)
#22. Warren Zeiders - Relapse (RE)
#23. Dan + Shay - Bigger Houses (RE)
#24. PARTYNEXTDOOR - N o C h i l l (RE)
#25. A$AP Rocky feat. Imogen Heap and Clams Casino - I Smoked Away My Brain (RE)

[dremolus - solarpunk]

DEBUTS
#29. Zach Bryan - High Road
#49. Zach Bryan - This World's a Giant
#51. Brandon Lake - Hard Fought Hallelujah
#62. Karol G, Feid, and DFZM feat. Ovy On The Drums, J Balvin, Maluma, Ryan Castro, and Blessd - +57
#78. Loe Shimmy and Brent Faiyaz - For Me
#97. Lainey Wilson - 4x4xU
#98. Jordan Davis - I Ain't Sayin'
#99. BigXthaPlug - The Largest
#100. Meghan Trainor - Criminals

Notable Gains:
#34. Koe Wetzel and Jessie Murph - High Road (+11)
#53. Thomas Rhett - Beautiful As You (+10)
#58. Zach Top - I Never Lie (+14) *NEW PEAK*
#59. Chris Brown - Residuals (+10) *NEW PEAK*
#68. The Marías - No One Noticed (+16) *NEW PEAK*
#70. Chris Stapleton - Think I'm in Love With You (+13)
#74. Jelly Roll - Liar (+15)
#77. Don Toliver - No Pole (+17) *NEW PEAK*
#79. GloRilla and T-Pain - I LUV HER (+12)
#83. Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG (+16)
#87. mgk and Jelly Roll - Lonely Road (+10)

Notable Losses:
#43. Tyler the Creator feat. Teezo Touchdown - Darling, I (-22)
#46. Tyler the Creator feat. Lola Young - Like Hime (-17)
#48. Tyler the Creator - Rah Tah Tah (-23)
#60. Tyler the Creator feat. ScHoolboy Q and Santigold - Thought I Was Dead (-21)
#65. Tyler the Creator - Noid (-28)
#89. Tyler the Creator feat. Doechii - Balloon (-29)
#90. Tyler the Creator - Judge Judy (-38)
#94. Tyler the Creator feat. Daniel Caesar and Latoiya Williams - Take Your Mask Off (-35)

Re-entries:
#38. Wham! - Last Christmas
#72. Teddy Swims - Bad Dreams
#88. Fuerza Regida - Nel
#91. The Red Clay Strays - Wondering Why
#92. Gunna - on one tonight
#95. KSI feat. Trippie Redd - Thick of It

Notable Dropouts:
Pour Me A Drink (20 weeks)
Si Antes Te Hubiera Conocido (20 weeks)
NIGHTS LIKE THIS (20 weeks)

Biggest Gain in Streaming: That's So True
Biggest Gain in Airplay: APT.
Biggest Gain in Sales: WILDFLOWER

Gained in Points:
#2. Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars - Die With A Smile (=)
#6. Gracie Abrams - That's So True (+7) *NEW PEAK*
#8. Sabrina Carpenter - Taste (-1)
#10. Morgan Wallen - Love Somebody (-1)
#13. ROSÉ and Bruno Mars - APT. (+2)
#14. The Weeknd and Playboi Carti - Timeless (+5)
#20. Myles Smith - Stargazing (+4) *NEW PEAK*
#22. Gigi Perez - Sailor Song (+4) *NEW PEAK*
#25. Billie Eilish - WILDFLOWER (+7)
#26. GloRilla and Sexyy Red - WHATCHU KNO ABOUT ME (+4) *NEW PEAK*
#30. Sabrina Carpenter - Bed Chem (+4)
#31. Teddy Swims - The Door (+4)
#35. Ella Langley feat. Riley Green - you look like you love me (+5)
#40. Tucker Wetmore - Wind Up Missin' You (+7) *NEW PEAK*
#44. Chappell Roan - Pink Pony Club (+2)
#47. Real Boston Richey - Help Me (+9) *NEW PEAK*
#61. Summer Walker - Heart of a Woman (+7)
#63. Cody Johnson and Carrie Underwood - I'm Gonna Love You (+3)
#67. Gracie Abrams - Close to You (+8)
#81. Don Toliver - New Drop (+9)
#93. Latto - Brokey (+7) *NEW PEAK*

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

[stormlover74]

Interesting that Last Christmas is the only holiday song to chart so far. Not sure if it will mean anything going forward

[jenglisbe]

Nov 19, 2024 9:19:14 GMT -5 stormlover74 said:

Interesting that Last Christmas is the only holiday song to chart so far. Not sure if it will mean anything going forward

"AIWFCIY" would be ahead of it, but it can't re-enter unless it makes the top 25 since it has spent over 52 weeks on the Hot 100.

"RATCT" would have also re-entered, but it also has to be top 25 to re-enter. It was predicted to be below "Last Christmas," though. Is that typical?

[stormlover74]

Nov 19, 2024 9:31:35 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 19, 2024 9:19:14 GMT -5 stormlover74 said:

Interesting that Last Christmas is the only holiday song to chart so far. Not sure if it will mean anything going forward

"AIWFCIY" would be ahead of it, but it can't re-enter unless it makes the top 25 since it has spent over 52 weeks on the Hot 100.

"RATCT" would have also re-entered, but it also has to be top 25 to re-enter. It was predicted to be below "Last Christmas," though. Is that typical?

Oh right I forgot about that rule. And no usually Rockin would be ahead of it

[stormlover74]

It's usually Rocking or Mariah followed by jingle bell rock then last Christmas. Would be nice to mix it up once in a while

[jenglisbe]

Nov 19, 2024 9:39:16 GMT -5 stormlover74 said:

It's usually Rocking or Mariah followed by jingle bell rock then last Christmas. Would be nice to mix it up once in a while

Yeah, as I've noted before the big difference is that 'Christmas Classics' playlist on Spotify. It's for holiday songs from 1940-1980, and that's where "RATCT," "Jingle Bell Rock," etc draw a lot of their streams. To help mix things up, it would be nice if Spotify would add a 'Modern Christmas Classics' playlist for songs from 1980-2020. That would help songs like "Last Christmas," "Santa Tell Me," etc and we might see at least somewhat of a shake up. Regardless of the Hot 100 that type of a playlist just makes sense.

[stormlover74]

Nov 19, 2024 11:27:05 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 19, 2024 9:39:16 GMT -5 stormlover74 said:

It's usually Rocking or Mariah followed by jingle bell rock then last Christmas. Would be nice to mix it up once in a while

Yeah, as I've noted before the big difference is that 'Christmas Classics' playlist on Spotify. It's for holiday songs from 1940-1980, and there's where "RATCT," "Jingle Bell Rock," etc draw a lot of their streams. To help mix things up, it would be nice if Spotify would add a 'Modern Christmas Classics' playlist for songs from 1980-2020. That would help songs like "Last Christmas," "Santa Tell Me," etc and we might see at least somewhat of a shake up. Regardless of the Hot 100 that type of a playlist just makes sense.

Yeah and there are a slew of new releases every year that mostly just get airplay on AC radio

[sayhey]

Very happy to see that Gaga and Bruno just hit #1 on Pop radio, Gaga's first since BTW! Pop radio generally is very fickle and tends to abruptly drop major pop acts, even right after their peak. A prominent example is Mariah Carey following the massive Daydream era in 1995-1996, with 1997's Butterfly's relative underperformance on Pop. One of the most extreme examples, however, would be the Spice Girls, who enjoyed heavy pop radio airplay in 1997, with their debut producing three longevous top 5 hits there, only to be dropped like a rock by the format by the end of the year, with SUYL barely scraping Pop's top 40. They never entered Pop radio's top 20 again, which significantly hindered their following singles chart-wise, even though they enjoyed high sales at retail.

I'd say one of the biggest comebacks in pop radio's history has to be Mariah's TEOM era, with two humongous #1s (WBT & SIO) and a further really big top 3 (DFAU) after years of Pop shunning her. I'd love for Gaga to also enjoy a decent-sized comeback there. She began her career as a pop radio darling with TFM producing 6 #1s and BTW also serving as a solid follow-up on the format. However, ARTPOP, Joanne, ASIB and Chromatica all struggled on Pop, which was the result of various factors beyond this thread's scope. DWAS's success is definitely a promising sign for Gaga's CHR fortunes though! Here's to her team quickly discarding the (kind of DOA) Disease for a worthy follow-up to DWAS so that she truly solidifies this pop radio comeback.

[85la]

At one point I think we're gonna have to seriously consider that DWAS's success is largely due to Bruno. Especially given Gaga's top 40-drought pretty much since 2011, Mars has consistently produced strong pop hits during all this time, with maybe just a small slippage since Finesse in 2018, but he hasn't released any solo albums since then, and Leave The Door Open with Silk Sonic did fairly well on pop. We kind of have our evidence already with Disease, which you can say isn't as strong of a song and maybe not "mainstream-appealing" enough, but the disparity between the performance of the two is just too great to be attributable to those reasons alone.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Nov 20, 2024 22:38:27 GMT -5 85la said:

At one point I think we're gonna have to seriously consider that DWAS's success is largely due to Bruno. Especially given Gaga's top 40-drought pretty much since 2011, Mars has consistently produced strong pop hits during all this time, with maybe just a small slippage since Finesse in 2018, but he hasn't released any solo albums since then, and Leave The Door Open with Silk Sonic did fairly well on pop. We kind of have our evidence already with Disease, which you can say isn't as strong of a song and maybe not "mainstream-appealing" enough, but the disparity between the performance of the two is just too great to be attributable to those reasons alone.

I mean, you can attribute it to initial interest in what a duet between the two would sound like and then people legitimately enjoying the song and it growing from there. “Die With A Smile” is a very classic sounding conventional love ballad. “Disease” is a weird horror pop song. It’s not rocket science that it’s not a guaranteed hit.

Beyond that, top 40 drought since 2011? That’s a tad bit if an exaggeration, don’t you think?

[tfa20]

Nov 20, 2024 22:43:55 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Nov 20, 2024 22:38:27 GMT -5 85la said:

At one point I think we're gonna have to seriously consider that DWAS's success is largely due to Bruno. Especially given Gaga's top 40-drought pretty much since 2011, Mars has consistently produced strong pop hits during all this time, with maybe just a small slippage since Finesse in 2018, but he hasn't released any solo albums since then, and Leave The Door Open with Silk Sonic did fairly well on pop. We kind of have our evidence already with Disease, which you can say isn't as strong of a song and maybe not "mainstream-appealing" enough, but the disparity between the performance of the two is just too great to be attributable to those reasons alone.

I mean, you can attribute it to initial interest in what a duet between the two would sound like and then people legitimately enjoying the song and it growing from there. “Die With A Smile” is a very classic sounding conventional love ballad. “Disease” is a weird horror pop song. It’s not rocket science that it’s not a guaranteed hit.

Beyond that, top 40 drought since 2011? That’s a tad bit if an exaggeration, don’t you think?

Only a little. The top 40 drought has actually been since 2014.

[Mayman]

Nov 21, 2024 1:35:57 GMT -5 tfa20 said:

Nov 20, 2024 22:43:55 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

I mean, you can attribute it to initial interest in what a duet between the two would sound like and then people legitimately enjoying the song and it growing from there. “Die With A Smile” is a very classic sounding conventional love ballad. “Disease” is a weird horror pop song. It’s not rocket science that it’s not a guaranteed hit.

Beyond that, top 40 drought since 2011? That’s a tad bit if an exaggeration, don’t you think?

Only a little. The top 40 drought has actually been since 2014.

"Bloody Mary" going top 10 basically on its own with no promotion makes me believe this isn't true. "Rain On Me" did hit the top 10 as well and we all know that it should've gone a lot further, same for "Shallow." Sure it's not as much as her 2008-2011 run, but I think it's a bit much to say she had a "drought" for over a decade on pop radio when that's not exactly the case.

[jenglisbe]

Nov 19, 2024 9:36:50 GMT -5 stormlover74 said:

Nov 19, 2024 9:31:35 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

"AIWFCIY" would be ahead of it, but it can't re-enter unless it makes the top 25 since it has spent over 52 weeks on the Hot 100.

"RATCT" would have also re-entered, but it also has to be top 25 to re-enter. It was predicted to be below "Last Christmas," though. Is that typical?

Oh right I forgot about that rule. And no usually Rockin would be ahead of it

Sony seems to really be pushing the 40th anniversary of "Last Christmas" this year (it hadn't occurred to me until now that "LC" and "AIWFCIY" were released exactly 10 years apart). Sony is promoting with multiple physical releases, re-servicing to radio/tv (BBC specials on TV/radio) and most importantly on streaming and social media platforms, including Andrew doing promo. They actually started last year with multiple music video uploads to Youtube on Wham's official channel in anticipation for this anniversary season. It's very likely" LC" will be the much-hyped Christmas #1 in the UK this year. Maybe that all is helping "LC" be higher early on, and we'll see if it helps it get a new peak once holiday song truly take over.

Nov 21, 2024 2:11:35 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Nov 21, 2024 1:35:57 GMT -5 tfa20 said:

Only a little. The top 40 drought has actually been since 2014.

"Bloody Mary" going top 10 basically on its own with no promotion makes me believe this isn't true. "Rain On Me" did hit the top 10 as well and we all know that it should've gone a lot further, same for "Shallow." Sure it's not as much as her 2008-2011 run, but I think it's a bit much to say she had a "drought" for over a decade on pop radio when that's not exactly the case.

I wouldn't call it a 'drought' either since she's at least gone top 20 and such, but apart from "Bloody Mary" randomly hitting, isn't the last time Gaga hit top 10 at Top 40 radio with a solo song back in 2013? "Shallow" didn't actually go top 10 at Top 40 radio (and isn't solo anyway, but you can at least argue she was the main attraction). "Rain on Me" had Ariana on it. To that end, it's very much like Mariah post-Daydream when her singles would peak in the teens on Top 40 radio. It then wasn't until "IKWYW" and the TEOM era that she had big hits at Top 40 again.

[Mayman]

Nov 21, 2024 12:33:45 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Nov 19, 2024 9:36:50 GMT -5 stormlover74 said:

Oh right I forgot about that rule. And no usually Rockin would be ahead of it

Sony seems to really be pushing the 40th anniversary of "Last Christmas" this year (it hadn't occurred to me until now that "LC" and "AIWFCIY" were released exactly 10 years apart). Sony is promoting with multiple physical releases, re-servicing to radio/tv (BBC specials on TV/radio) and most importantly on streaming and social media platforms, including Andrew doing promo. They actually started last year with multiple music video uploads to Youtube on Wham's official channel in anticipation for this anniversary season. It's very likely" LC" will be the much-hyped Christmas #1 in the UK this year. Maybe that all is helping "LC" be higher early on, and we'll see if it helps it get a new peak once holiday song truly take over.

Nov 21, 2024 2:11:35 GMT -5 Mayman said:

"Bloody Mary" going top 10 basically on its own with no promotion makes me believe this isn't true. "Rain On Me" did hit the top 10 as well and we all know that it should've gone a lot further, same for "Shallow." Sure it's not as much as her 2008-2011 run, but I think it's a bit much to say she had a "drought" for over a decade on pop radio when that's not exactly the case.

I wouldn't call it a 'drought' either since she's at least gone top 20 and such, but apart from "Bloody Mary" randomly hitting, isn't the last time Gaga hit top 10 at Top 40 radio with a solo song back in 2013? "Shallow" didn't actually go top 10 at Top 40 radio (and isn't solo anyway, but you can at least argue she was the main attraction). "Rain on Me" had Ariana on it. To that end, it's very much like Mariah post-Daydream when her singles would peak in the teens on Top 40 radio. It then wasn't until "IKWYW" and the TEOM era that she had big hits at Top 40 again.

Does it really matter if the song is solo? I don't know why there's always that little mark for Gaga, all of her accomplishments are nullified by certain people because she has another artist on the song. And I understand "Shallow" didn't hit the top 10, I never said it did. Just saying for how popular it was on streaming and sales, it should have been top 10 on pop radio.

I do agree her timeline on pop radio reminds me a bit of Mariah's but Mariah definitely had more longevity with her run from 1990-1996 than Gaga. Both had several consecutive #1s with their first singles. Mariah from Vision of Love to I think Hero and Gaga from Just Dance to Telephone.

[85la]

To clarify, I guess what I was referring to when I said "top 40 drought," was since 2011, or especially since 2013 after Applause, was the last time she hit the top 5 on pop radio until now, and only hitting #10 twice. I think someone else earlier in the thread, or Billboard themselves used the phrase when DWAS first reached the top 5. It's a far cry from and could be referred to as a "drought" compared to what she achieved before, with her string of 7 #1s and 9 top fives from 2008-2011, and certainly not as good a Mars, who has had a more consistent string of #1 and top five hits on pop radio.

[85la]

Nov 21, 2024 13:23:20 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Nov 21, 2024 12:33:45 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Sony seems to really be pushing the 40th anniversary of "Last Christmas" this year (it hadn't occurred to me until now that "LC" and "AIWFCIY" were released exactly 10 years apart). Sony is promoting with multiple physical releases, re-servicing to radio/tv (BBC specials on TV/radio) and most importantly on streaming and social media platforms, including Andrew doing promo. They actually started last year with multiple music video uploads to Youtube on Wham's official channel in anticipation for this anniversary season. It's very likely" LC" will be the much-hyped Christmas #1 in the UK this year. Maybe that all is helping "LC" be higher early on, and we'll see if it helps it get a new peak once holiday song truly take over.

I wouldn't call it a 'drought' either since she's at least gone top 20 and such, but apart from "Bloody Mary" randomly hitting, isn't the last time Gaga hit top 10 at Top 40 radio with a solo song back in 2013? "Shallow" didn't actually go top 10 at Top 40 radio (and isn't solo anyway, but you can at least argue she was the main attraction). "Rain on Me" had Ariana on it. To that end, it's very much like Mariah post-Daydream when her singles would peak in the teens on Top 40 radio. It then wasn't until "IKWYW" and the TEOM era that she had big hits at Top 40 again.

Does it really matter if the song is solo? I don't know why there's always that little mark for Gaga, all of her accomplishments are nullified by certain people because she has another artist on the song. And I understand "Shallow" didn't hit the top 10, I never said it did. Just saying for how popular it was on streaming and sales, it should have been top 10 on pop radio.

I do agree her timeline on pop radio reminds me a bit of Mariah's but Mariah definitely had more longevity with her run from 1990-1996 than Gaga. Both had several consecutive #1s with their first singles. Mariah from Vision of Love to I think Hero and Gaga from Just Dance to Telephone.

I mean it's not just Gaga, people do that with every artist.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Now I’m curious to know how many of Gaga’s hits were songs she wrote - even those shameful collabs!

[Enigma.]

Nov 21, 2024 22:06:41 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Now I’m curious to know how many of Gaga’s hits were songs she wrote - even those shameful collabs!

Ooh don't you know that Bradley Cooper wrote Shallow and Beyoncé wrote Telephone?! ;)

[kiddo1994]

i say, the top40 no.1 is thanks to Bruno's radio influence. Gaga had success in the top40 but nowhere near no.1 even with Shallow and ROM. She's been more successful in HAC since Million reasons

however to completely diminish Gaga is absurd. It can also be argued how Gaga influenced the European Success of DWAS while Bruno also carried ASIA's domination. It's a joint slay, that is

[Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint]

Nov 19, 2024 20:35:10 GMT -5 sayhey said:

Very happy to see that Gaga and Bruno just hit #1 on Pop radio, Gaga's first since BTW! Pop radio generally is very fickle and tends to abruptly drop major pop acts, even right after their peak. A prominent example is Mariah Carey following the massive Daydream era in 1995-1996, with 1997's Butterfly's relative underperformance on Pop. One of the most extreme examples, however, would be the Spice Girls, who enjoyed heavy pop radio airplay in 1997, with their debut producing three longevous top 5 hits there, only to be dropped like a rock by the format by the end of the year, with SUYL barely scraping Pop's top 40. They never entered Pop radio's top 20 again, which significantly hindered their following singles chart-wise, even though they enjoyed high sales at retail.

I'd say one of the biggest comebacks in pop radio's history has to be Mariah's TEOM era, with two humongous #1s (WBT & SIO) and a further really big top 3 (DFAU) after years of Pop shunning her. I'd love for Gaga to also enjoy a decent-sized comeback there. She began her career as a pop radio darling with TFM producing 6 #1s and BTW also serving as a solid follow-up on the format. However, ARTPOP, Joanne, ASIB and Chromatica all struggled on Pop, which was the result of various factors beyond this thread's scope. DWAS's success is definitely a promising sign for Gaga's CHR fortunes though! Here's to her team quickly discarding the (kind of DOA) Disease for a worthy follow-up to DWAS so that she truly solidifies this pop radio comeback.

I agree with everything you're saying but I might add it's more accurate to say that after 1995 Daydream to 1997 Butterfly 🦋 it was more Mariah dropped POP than POP dropped Mariah. I'm sure of she made more pop leaning material like on Daydream they would give her same reception. That was a sexist and racist time in music, Mariah being less covered up and working with rappers was seen as bad. Now what she did is the NORM so kids lesson be yourself and the world will catch up with you one day!

[sayhey]

Nov 23, 2024 22:13:46 GMT -5 Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint said:

Nov 19, 2024 20:35:10 GMT -5 sayhey said:

Very happy to see that Gaga and Bruno just hit #1 on Pop radio, Gaga's first since BTW! Pop radio generally is very fickle and tends to abruptly drop major pop acts, even right after their peak. A prominent example is Mariah Carey following the massive Daydream era in 1995-1996, with 1997's Butterfly's relative underperformance on Pop. One of the most extreme examples, however, would be the Spice Girls, who enjoyed heavy pop radio airplay in 1997, with their debut producing three longevous top 5 hits there, only to be dropped like a rock by the format by the end of the year, with SUYL barely scraping Pop's top 40. They never entered Pop radio's top 20 again, which significantly hindered their following singles chart-wise, even though they enjoyed high sales at retail.

I'd say one of the biggest comebacks in pop radio's history has to be Mariah's TEOM era, with two humongous #1s (WBT & SIO) and a further really big top 3 (DFAU) after years of Pop shunning her. I'd love for Gaga to also enjoy a decent-sized comeback there. She began her career as a pop radio darling with TFM producing 6 #1s and BTW also serving as a solid follow-up on the format. However, ARTPOP, Joanne, ASIB and Chromatica all struggled on Pop, which was the result of various factors beyond this thread's scope. DWAS's success is definitely a promising sign for Gaga's CHR fortunes though! Here's to her team quickly discarding the (kind of DOA) Disease for a worthy follow-up to DWAS so that she truly solidifies this pop radio comeback.

I agree with everything you're saying but I might add it's more accurate to say that after 1995 Daydream to 1997 Butterfly 🦋 it was more Mariah dropped POP than POP dropped Mariah. I'm sure of she made more pop leaning material like on Daydream they would give her same reception. That was a sexist and racist time in music, Mariah being less covered up and working with rappers was seen as bad. Now what she did is the NORM so kids lesson be yourself and the world will catch up with you one day!

Yes, agreed 100%! I will say that Daydream represented Mariah delving more into the urban/hip-hop scene of the mid-90s, especially with the funky sample of Fantasy and let us not forget the wonderful, all-time-classic Bad Boy remix featuring O.D.B., which strongly contributed to the single's and album's popularity. But you are absolutely right in that Butterfly saw Mariah truly explore the contemporary urban/hip-hop scene in greater depth, with more introspective lyrics, influenced by the burgeoning neo-soul scene of the late 90s, in a similar fashion to Janet's The Velvet Rope. So, in essence, Butterfly represented the culmination of Mariah's progression from an AC act with strong R&B influences (in the early 90s) to a fully fledged urban act with overt hip-hop influences, a process that had begun with Daydream. However, I'd say that pop radio wasn't ready for the subdued, groovy sound of Honey, as they expected a more obvious banger, à la Fantasy, which, while also being urban-inflected, was still much more pop-friendly. That, coupled with her deteriorating marriage with Tommy Mottola, who definitely didn't promote the project as fervently as her previous eras, led to the relative underperformance of Butterfly on Pop, HAC and AC radio. Still, urban and rhythmic were highly supportive of the whole project, leading to healthy sales, albeit lower than those of the blockbuster that was Daydream.

[stormlover74]

Nov 24, 2024 9:13:14 GMT -5 sayhey said:

Nov 23, 2024 22:13:46 GMT -5 Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint said:

I agree with everything you're saying but I might add it's more accurate to say that after 1995 Daydream to 1997 Butterfly 🦋 it was more Mariah dropped POP than POP dropped Mariah. I'm sure of she made more pop leaning material like on Daydream they would give her same reception. That was a sexist and racist time in music, Mariah being less covered up and working with rappers was seen as bad. Now what she did is the NORM so kids lesson be yourself and the world will catch up with you one day!

Yes, agreed 100%! I will say that Daydream represented Mariah delving more into the urban/hip-hop scene of the mid-90s, especially with the funky sample of Fantasy and let us not forget the wonderful, all-time-classic Bad Boy remix featuring O.D.B., which strongly contributed to the single's and album's popularity. But you are absolutely right in that Butterfly saw Mariah truly explore the contemporary urban/hip-hop scene in greater depth, with more introspective lyrics, influenced by the burgeoning neo-soul scene of the late 90s, in a similar fashion to Janet's The Velvet Rope. So, in essence, Butterfly represented the culmination of Mariah's progression from an AC act with strong R&B influences (in the early 90s) to a fully fledged urban act with overt hip-hop influences, a process that had begun with Daydream. However, I'd say that pop radio wasn't ready for the subdued, groovy sound of Honey, as they expected a more obvious banger, à la Fantasy, which, while also being urban-inflected, was still much more pop-friendly. That, coupled with her deteriorating marriage with Tommy Mottola, who definitely didn't promote the project as fervently as her previous eras, led to the relative underperformance of Butterfly on Pop, HAC and AC radio. Still, urban and rhythmic were highly supportive of the whole project, leading to healthy sales, albeit lower than those of the blockbuster that was Daydream.

While I agree, she managed 3 #1s in 98-2000 with songs that were in her pop wheelhouse but didn't do great at radio. Seemed like starting with Honey radio moved on until 2005. It could be they were just weaker singles. After all Thank God I found you was IMO one of her worst singles and Heartbreaker was Fantasy 2.0

[#LisaRinna]

Nov 23, 2024 22:13:46 GMT -5 Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint said:

I agree with everything you're saying but I might add it's more accurate to say that after 1995 Daydream to 1997 Butterfly 🦋 it was more Mariah dropped POP than POP dropped Mariah.

Or... maybe the music just wasn't up to par 

[Enigma.]

I don't think it's surprising that Mariah from 1999 to 2002 didn't get much pop airplay. Then after that pop radio started to play r&b more which helped too (I Know What You Want reached #4 on pop).

[Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint]

Nov 24, 2024 12:44:49 GMT -5 #LisaRinna said:

Nov 23, 2024 22:13:46 GMT -5 Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint said:

I agree with everything you're saying but I might add it's more accurate to say that after 1995 Daydream to 1997 Butterfly 🦋 it was more Mariah dropped POP than POP dropped Mariah.

Or... maybe the music just wasn't up to par 

For you luv ❤️ but Butterfly is a classic rnb album to this day! Beyonce says thanks you for showing the way:) 😉

[jenglisbe]

"Honey" was a change and not as 'bright' as past lead singles, so I see why it didn't do as well at Top 40 radio as past hits.

"My All," though, is an amazing ballad and should have gotten a better radio reception (at AC, if nothing else). It sold really well, too, and even did well on Total Request (the prequel to TRL) so the interest was there.

[#LisaRinna]

Nov 24, 2024 14:17:35 GMT -5 Coco Yu'Kneek- Saint said:

Nov 24, 2024 12:44:49 GMT -5 #LisaRinna said:

Or... maybe the music just wasn't up to par 

For you luv ❤️ but Butterfly is a classic rnb album to this day! Beyonce says thanks you for showing the way:) 😉

But Beyoncé was influenced by "Vision of Love"...?