michellef
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Post by michellef on Oct 13, 2012 9:47:51 GMT -5
That doesn't mean what you seemed to be implying it means. When "BA" hits #1 on Country Airplay, Billboard will not be saying its her 13th #1 and will not be ranking her alongside Rascal Flatts or whomever it was that also has 13 #1s. Country Airplay is no longer the main country chart. But the old methodology is what will be used to determine past #1s when counting in new chart stats. it's one of their THREE Main Country Music charts. Airplay, Digital Country Songs, and Country Songs. All of these matter and will continue to matter to the industry. This new chart will just give them one more reason to have parties and such. Look at how they treat Aircheck/Mediabase #1 hits. Billboard said all of the records and data was being transferred over to the Country Airplay chart. In essence, this chart is a new chart. They just gave it the Country Songs chart NAME. Yes, they kept the old chart placement data (they should've just had it be all new data) with this new chart but who cares if all the old chart history goes to the Airplay Chart. Carrie WILL tie whomever has 13 #1 hits. That should be ALL that matters to you. She'll be able to say this went to #1 and the majority of her fans will know it as that. They won't care if it actually did or not. Most fans aren't as close a chart watcher as you or I or anyone else on this board is and for the sake of this board, it'll be the AIRPLAY chart that is prominent in the Country Update that gets sent out. Also, I do have to wonder if some people are WAY over thinking/overreacting to this new chart rules and giving Billboard too much power. Shoot, now you see why there are two radio airplay charts to begin with and why Radio always has had them (to say nothing of Indicator or Music Row secondary radio which is the majority of the country music audience's actual radio stations) i think it also makes people upset because a song like "we are never ever getting back together" can now be called a #1 country song. obviously it's not a country song, so to have a pop song be called a #1 country song kind of makes it seem like #1s in country music are worthless.
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kml567
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Post by kml567 on Oct 13, 2012 9:59:47 GMT -5
Taylor's "Trouble" is projected to sell 400k this week, meaning she will be #1 based on sales alone (ahead of WANEGBT).
Unless Billboard doesn't consider "Trouble" as a country song, Taylor will hit #1 on Hot Country Songs Chart next Thursday with use of DUB-STEP!!
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Oct 13, 2012 10:01:58 GMT -5
I would love to see Carrie and Brad use this nonsense as part of their monologue come CMA time. If there's a way to get 'our' point across without completely insulting Billboard, I hope they find it. That would be silly, and far too "inside baseball" to resonate with the ~16 million people who watch the CMAs. It would give Billboard a level of importance that it simply doesn't have with the television audience. I believe this quote from the inaugural Billboard's Midweek Country Update clarifies the historical issue:The real loss here is that the Billboard Hot Country Songs chart, which carries a 68 year record that enabled us to place different generations of country singers into a comparable chart context, has now lost its meaning given that the new methodology crowned a new #1 via CHR/Pop programming decisions and song categorizations that simply don't reflect musical or chart reality. That's a loss for the relatively small subset of people interested in chart history, and it's a loss for Billboard. We still have the Country Airplay chart, of course, but that gives us access to two or at best three generations of country. We can always manually combine the Country Songs chart up until this week with the Country Airplay chart, but it was easier when we could rely on just the one chart. This is also an opportunity lost, because it is a shame that a chart that finally incorporates sales and streaming, thereby giving a voice to fans outside of radio, fails to sensibly capture the country market. We have made no progress if we're back to asserting that the Billboard Country Airplay chart or a Mediabase chart that has been more vulnerable to label manipulation than Billboard's airplay chart are the only legitimate reflections of the country market. But given the current options, that's where we are, and it's a shame that Billboard didn't adopt a more sensible, consistent classification system and methodology that empowered fans in line with its aims. It could also be a loss if the industry actually pays attention to the Hot Country Songs chart, because as has already been pointed out, this stacks the deck strongly in favor of those acts that actively promote to the pop formats. Folks here are probably right that that won't happen, but that just makes me go back to the lost opportunity Billboard had to present a chart that would make the industry pay more attention to consumer choices like sales and streams.
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kml567
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Post by kml567 on Oct 13, 2012 10:11:54 GMT -5
CMT is already using Billboard Hot Country Songs chart as the official chart (instead of airplay). I was watching CMT Insider on TV and they were hyping Taylor as dominating the charts with #1, #2 and #10 this week.
I worry that other media outlets are now using Hot Country Songs as the official chart instead of airplay. At least Lon Helton top 30 countdowns are using Mediabase, so we're fine there....
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Oct 13, 2012 11:23:58 GMT -5
CMT is already using Billboard Hot Country Songs chart as the official chart (instead of airplay). I was watching CMT Insider on TV and they were hyping Taylor as dominating the charts with #1, #2 and #10 this week. I worry that other media outlets are now using Hot Country Songs as the official chart instead of airplay. At least Lon Helton top 30 countdowns are using Mediabase, so we're fine there.... CMT doesn't care about what radio airplay stuff is. Shoot, their video streams are likely incorporated INTO these charts now.
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Eloqueenβ’
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Post by Eloqueenβ’ on Oct 13, 2012 11:39:45 GMT -5
Taylor's "Trouble" is projected to sell 400k this week, meaning she will be #1 based on sales alone (ahead of WANEGBT). Unless Billboard doesn't consider "Trouble" as a country song, Taylor will hit #1 on Hot Country Songs Chart next Thursday with use of DUB-STEP!! Billboard already made it perfectly clear (via Twitter I believe) that "I Knew You Were Trouble", along with certain other songs on her upcoming album, would not be eligible to chart on Hot Country Songs.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Oct 13, 2012 11:44:01 GMT -5
Taylor's "Trouble" is projected to sell 400k this week, meaning she will be #1 based on sales alone (ahead of WANEGBT). Unless Billboard doesn't consider "Trouble" as a country song, Taylor will hit #1 on Hot Country Songs Chart next Thursday with use of DUB-STEP!! Billboard already made it perfectly clear (via Twitter I believe) that "I Knew You Were Trouble", along with certain other songs on her upcoming album, would not be eligible to chart on Hot Country Songs. Then it/they better not be on the Country Digital Songs chart either but I suspect they will be.
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Post by countrygirl918 on Oct 13, 2012 12:10:33 GMT -5
Taylor's "Trouble" is projected to sell 400k this week, meaning she will be #1 based on sales alone (ahead of WANEGBT). Unless Billboard doesn't consider "Trouble" as a country song, Taylor will hit #1 on Hot Country Songs Chart next Thursday with use of DUB-STEP!! Billboard already made it perfectly clear (via Twitter I believe) that "I Knew You Were Trouble", along with certain other songs on her upcoming album, would not be eligible to chart on Hot Country Songs. I'll believe that when I see it, considering the pop mix of WANEGBT is the one giving the song its current Hot Country Songs chart position.
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Post by musictomyears on Oct 13, 2012 13:40:12 GMT -5
Thank you for the link to the Petition! I have signed it and passed it along to several others! I don't know how any country music follower wouldn't want to sign it as well! Come Monday morning I believe there will be much more backlash coming within the industry in regards to the Billboard revamping.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Oct 13, 2012 16:44:46 GMT -5
The problem here IS that they have given this new chart the name of a chart with 60 years of history. The Billboard Country Songs chart is THE chart in the mind of the media and fans. The media is lazy. They will reference this chart as the definitive one.
We can also no longer use that extensive chart history to compare artists across generations as someone else mentioned. It also means pretty much all Billboard chart achievements are about to go out the window. It's only a matter of time before Taylor passes Reba/Dolly and has the most country #1s of any female given that her crossover airplay will pretty much guarantee her a #1 placement with any of her pop singles. And as mentioned she'll dominate the Top 10 when the album comes out thanks to high sales numbers. Nothing personal against Taylor as I'm indifferent to her.
Honestly there wouldn't be as much fuss if they had added this chart under a new name rather than trying to pass it off as the heir to the 60+ year chart we've all been following.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Oct 13, 2012 16:58:31 GMT -5
I can't remember how many times I've made the argument that what makes the BB country chart superior to MB is its history, its continuity. Guess I can store that argument in the circular file.
I can understand the desire to update the charts, to be contemporary. What I cannot understand is the willingness to throw away 60 years of history in the process. There had to be a more thoughtful way to accomplish what they wanted to. They told us many months ago that something like this was coming -- I assumed they were waiting until they had it figured out. Instead they look like a bunch of amateurs.
Billboard: you and I are never, ever, ever getting back together!
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Oct 13, 2012 17:17:26 GMT -5
I can't remember how many times I've made the argument that what makes the BB country chart superior to MB is its history, its continuity. Guess I can store that argument in the circular file. I can understand the desire to update the charts, to be contemporary. What I cannot understand is the willingness to throw away 60 years of history in the process. There had to be a more thoughtful way to accomplish what they wanted to. They told us many months ago that something like this was coming -- I assumed they were waiting until they had it figured out. Instead they look like a bunch of amateurs. Billboard: you and I are never, ever, ever getting back together! That's my issue with this as well, the new chart maintaining the same name makes its six decade history practically irrelevant, and that pisses me off to no end. To equate new #1s to old #1s based on only the title with a complete different formula is utter bullshit...
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Post by countryfan15 on Oct 13, 2012 17:25:26 GMT -5
Maybe Taylor will agree that this is bogus and quit singing until they change it back..... but then again hell would freeze over before that happened unfortunately
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Post by musictomyears on Oct 13, 2012 17:38:59 GMT -5
The problem here IS that they have given this new chart the name of a chart with 60 years of history. The Billboard Country Songs chart is THE chart in the mind of the media and fans. The media is lazy. They will reference this chart as the definitive one. We can also no longer use that extensive chart history to compare artists across generations as someone else mentioned. It also means pretty much all Billboard chart achievements are about to go out the window. It's only a matter of time before Taylor passes Reba/Dolly and has the most country #1s of any female given that her crossover airplay will pretty much guarantee her a #1 placement with any of her pop singles. And as mentioned she'll dominate the Top 10 when the album comes out thanks to high sales numbers. Nothing personal against Taylor as I'm indifferent to her. Honestly there wouldn't be as much fuss if they had added this chart under a new name rather than trying to pass it off as the heir to the 60+ year chart we've all been following. Note that when you go to Billboard Country Chart.....it is the "new" chart that appears.......hence the world sees a #1 and #2 song by the same artist. Furthermore....#2 on the chart has not even been released as a single as yet....nor given any airplay on Country Radio! Just sad, foolish and completely ridiculous!
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Post by Carriefan1190 on Oct 13, 2012 17:58:07 GMT -5
This is just a major slap in the face to the traditional country artists like Brad, Miranda, Carrie, Reba, George and many others. It's basically telling them in order to get a #1 single on the chart now, you have to conform to today's rules and sing more pop country in order to have a "hit" Billboard should have thought this through before they did this, seriously.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Oct 13, 2012 18:50:17 GMT -5
This is just a major slap in the face to the traditional country artists like Brad, Miranda, Carrie, Reba, George and many others. It's basically telling them in order to get a #1 single on the chart now, you have to conform to today's rules and sing more pop country in order to have a "hit" Billboard should have thought this through before they did this, seriously. Of the names you listed, the only one still releasing traditional country singles on a consistent basis is George Strait. Carrie and Miranda include some traditional country songs on their albums but aren't releasing them as singles, and both have released singles in the past year that are pop-country. In Carrie's case, the main thing that ties her current single to country is the voice/phrasing of the singer, because the production and melody certainly don't sound very country. The production of Brad's current single similarly takes leave of most country signifiers, though like "Blown Away," the point of view represented in "Southern Comfort Zone" seems rooted in country. Reba's last two singles that reached the top-25 on the country charts are her cover of a Beyonce song and "Turn on the Radio," neither of which are within sniffing distance of traditional country. As far as I'm concerned, the only currently charting artists releasing traditional country music to country radio at the moment are George Strait, Alan Jackson, Easton Corbin, and Greg Bates. Point being that several of the core country artists that you mentioned were already exploring the edges of country before this methodology change was introduced. But they were doing so without actively promoting their music to other radio formats, CHR/Pop in particular. What the methodology change does is punish them along with traditional country artists for not actively promoting their music to the CHR/Pop format (which dwarfs the Country format in its ability to generate audience impressions) and for not actively catering to CHR/Pop programmers with remixes, interview availability, in-studio performances, etc.
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Post by Carriefan1190 on Oct 13, 2012 19:00:30 GMT -5
Yes, but you got to admit that Taylor makes Carrie sound like Loretta Lynn. This is a boldfaced attempt to get Taylor back into the hearts of country music listeners.
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renee75
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Post by renee75 on Oct 13, 2012 22:00:44 GMT -5
Yes, but you got to admit that Taylor makes Carrie sound like Loretta Lynn. Not really. Carrie has a much stronger voice, obviously, but if we're talking solely about how "pop" they sound, I don't think there's a dime's worth of difference between them.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Oct 13, 2012 22:17:17 GMT -5
I continue to think about this and it's just all so messy and ridiculous.
Labels generally cross over country songs to Hot AC and Pop after they have finished their runs at country radio. "Wanted" for example is just starting it's ascent at those formats after hitting #1 at country radio. Assuming it performs decently at those formats, combining crossover airplay with recurrent country airplay will likely keep it well ahead of his new country single for its entire run. Bizarre.
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wastedtime
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Post by wastedtime on Oct 13, 2012 22:43:50 GMT -5
I've been reading everyone's thoughts and concerns and trying to figure out my own feelings on the new charts.
I've decided I like the new charts (with one caveat - the genre designations). Someone else said it better on another thread but the gist was that it's trying to measure the most popular country song at that time. If a country song is getting pop airplay as a country song and it's downloads are high even off the back of that pop airplay, it is still the biggest country hit at that moment. It may not be the biggest hit with country radio listeners at that moment, but it's still the biggest country song.
So I don't mind the inclusion of pop airplay as long as it's still a country song. Did Billboard say whether airplay from pop remixes of country songs would count? I know there was something about the Kelly Clarkson country remix not counting but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.
My only issue with the new charts is that I do not like the seemingly arbitrary genre designations. Since Never Ever has a country remix, that to me makes the charting version NOT a country song.
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Post by musictomyears on Oct 13, 2012 23:17:25 GMT -5
^^^^ Wastedtime, what are your thoughts on Red sitting at #2 on the revamped Billboard Country Chart? The song has not even been released as a single as yet, nor has it had any Country Radio airplay, yet for all the world to see....it is the #2 Country Song on Billboard!
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 13, 2012 23:30:05 GMT -5
Thanks wastedtime. I think mine was one of the posts you referenced. :) Glad to see what I've written made sense to someone.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 13, 2012 23:30:54 GMT -5
^^^^ Wastedtime, what are your thoughts on Red sitting at #2 on the revamped Billboard Country Chart? The song has not even been released as a single as yet, nor has it had any Country Radio airplay, yet for all the world to see....it is the #2 Country Song on Billboard! The new chart isn't radio controlled. Why should only radio releases count toward popularity?
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Oct 13, 2012 23:39:13 GMT -5
^^^^ Wastedtime, what are your thoughts on Red sitting at #2 on the revamped Billboard Country Chart? The song has not even been released as a single as yet, nor has it had any Country Radio airplay, yet for all the world to see....it is the #2 Country Song on Billboard! The new chart isn't radio controlled. Why should only radio releases count toward popularity? Because that's what a "single" is. What's the point of releasing a song to radio if the radio chart doesn't matter?
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wastedtime
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Post by wastedtime on Oct 13, 2012 23:48:22 GMT -5
^^^^ Wastedtime, what are your thoughts on Red sitting at #2 on the revamped Billboard Country Chart? The song has not even been released as a single as yet, nor has it had any Country Radio airplay, yet for all the world to see....it is the #2 Country Song on Billboard! I'm okay with it (because I do think Red's a country song but honestly I'd hate to be the one deciding that for all songs lol) Just like I'd be okay if the Dixie Chicks came out with a country song that blew up online or on pop radio but country radio wouldn't play it. As long as it was a country song. Edited to add: Yes x+x I think yours was one of the posts I read. It made a great deal of sense to me so thank you!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2012 0:44:51 GMT -5
Maybe Taylor will agree that this is bogus and quit singing until they change it back..... but then again hell would freeze over before that happened unfortunately I highly doubt that will happen. Considering how things are going, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Billboard created a special award for Taylor Swift in honor of her 'achievement' of being the first artist to completely dominate the Top 10 of the 'new country chart.' Taylor will be there to accept the award in all of her "Like, oh my gosh, I totally didn't expect this" glory. I guess 'congrats' are in order for Scott B. for making this happen.
I've said it before, but this new rule is a joke. The 'old' chart was bad enough with the 'airplay deals' that helped get guaranteed instant airplay for select artists. This goes beyond that and rewards specific artists who get crossover exposure. I am well aware that Shania Twain is one of those artists who may/may not benefit from this new chart rule. That still doesn't make it right. jmo.
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Post by josh on Oct 14, 2012 0:46:52 GMT -5
Considering how things are going, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Billboard created a special award for Taylor Swift in honor of her 'achievement' of being the first artist to completely dominate the Top 10 of the 'new country chart.' Taylor will be there to accept the award in all of her "Like, oh my gosh, I totally didn't expect this" glory. I literally see this happening. +1000000 to your post, sir.
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peterca
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Post by peterca on Oct 14, 2012 1:34:59 GMT -5
WANEGBT is #50 on today's Mediabase country chart and will fall off this chart tomorrow. So, when this week's charts end, WANEGBT will be #1 on BB's newly devised Hot Country Songs chart and be completely off the Mediabase Country chart. How's that for disparity?
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Post by misterscribbs on Oct 14, 2012 2:09:24 GMT -5
After a lot of thought, I don't entirely hate the idea of the chart. As mentioned previously, the most popular country song would be one that has airplay on other formats and high sales as well. I'm not entirely sure because I mainly skimmed through what Billboard had to say, but is there a certain percentage that other formats and sales impact the chart? Because I still think that genre specific radio play should be the most important thing. It doesn't make sense to me that "Never" is the #1 country song this week, and in just a few short weeks likely won't even be charting, so there's definitely some tweaking that needs to be done here. But can we please acknowledge the fact that this isn't all Taylor's fault? I'm a huge Carrie fan so I'm totally annoyed that she's losing a #1 song here, but just because Taylor has huge pop appeal doesn't mean that this is all her fault. Swifty gets on my nerves a lot but I think she's receiving unnecessary backlash for Billboard's laziness. I signed the petition because this chart just doesn't work as it stands, but the hybrid idea is definitely something that I think should be worked into the Hot Country Songs.
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whynotnow
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Post by whynotnow on Oct 14, 2012 7:04:34 GMT -5
Bill Board has become a joke from this point on.
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