seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Nov 22, 2013 14:33:25 GMT -5
I think Cyndi Lauper is doing fine so I'm not sure why she's being used here as the epitome of failure. She is not the epitome of failure but due to certain infamous quotes by critics, she will always be the epitome of flash-in-the-pan and settling into "doing her own thing", catering to her fanbase and not getting mainstream attention. Of course there are better examples than her, like Alanis Morissette but due to the "versus Madonna" thing, she will always be brought up when discussing the career possibilities of current female stars. While I agree that it's pointless to compare to 20-30 years ago, it is notable that Gaga swiftly came down from her peak, especially *outside* the US where her last hit was The Edge of Glory and Applause has been a non-event. I love Cyndi Lauper and in now way was trying to use her as the epitome of failure. Lets face it when you score multiple top 10s and your an artist you have reached the heights of your field period. Someone brought up Artpop being A Night To Remember and I was just pointing out that Artpop is actually off to a much much better start and I would compare it more to Madonna's Bedtime Stories. I was really comparing albums that had a similar feel commercially or how they impacted the artist. It is true that Cyndi starting with her 3rd album was never able to have the commercial success as she did with her first 2, however I do not view her as a failure in the grand scheme of things.
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Nov 22, 2013 14:34:51 GMT -5
I think Cyndi Lauper is doing fine so I'm not sure why she's being used here as the epitome of failure. She is not the epitome of failure but due to certain infamous quotes by critics, she will always be the epitome of flash-in-the-pan and settling into "doing her own thing", catering to her fanbase and not getting mainstream attention. Of course there are better examples than her, like Alanis Morissette but due to the "versus Madonna" thing, she will always be brought up when discussing the career possibilities of current female stars. While I agree that it's pointless to compare to 20-30 years ago, it is notable that Gaga swiftly came down from her peak, especially *outside* the US where her last hit was The Edge of Glory and Applause has been a non-event. I love Cyndi Lauper and in now way was trying to use her as the epitome of failure. Lets face it when you score multiple top 10s and your an artist you have reached the heights of your field period. Someone brought up Artpop being A Night To Remember and I was just pointing out that Artpop is actually off to a much much better start and I would compare it more to Madonna's Bedtime Stories. I was really comparing albums that had a similar feel commercially or how they impacted the artist. It is true that Cyndi starting with her 3rd album was never able to have the commercial success as she did with her first 2, however I do not view her as a failure in the grand scheme of things.
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spoonabdul3
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Post by spoonabdul3 on Nov 22, 2013 14:37:17 GMT -5
gagas career reminds me a lot of more of Paulas than Cyndi. First era HUGE (and long) hottest thing in music MAJOR hype for the second album, HUGE first single, had a few other hits but the hype seemed to die down. 3rd album.... well obviously GAGAs third album is a lot more successful then Paulas was... but I see similarties among those two more so than Cyndi
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Post by when the pawn... on Nov 22, 2013 15:17:27 GMT -5
These song-to-song and album-to-album comparisons have some small merits but generally, Gaga's career will probably be different than Madonna's, Cyndi's and Paula's. From what I understand of both Cyndi and Paula, Gaga is WAY bigger 3.5 albums into her career than they were at this point.
I may be wrong but I think there *could* be a backlash to the backlash brewing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 15:37:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that either.
Gaga will get more hits because everything is a single now. In Paula Abdul's day and Cyndi Lauper's day, the label first had to release it.
Gaga is not the top star in the world at album #3, neither were they .
Which one was bigger? The albums sold more in prior eras than they do now but there are more hits. Imagain what would have happened if itunes were available in the 80s.
These sort of things make comparisons of this sort more difficult
All three peaked at album #1 All three had slid downhill after. Which one fell faster? Hard to say and really kind of depends on how you look at it.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 22, 2013 16:54:08 GMT -5
Cyndi Lauper was also 36 by the time her 3rd album came out. Gaga is only 27, I think she'll have a few more hit eras.
Now you guys got me thinking of Taylor Dayne and Jody Watley who also had hit streaks back then.
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Post by josh on Nov 22, 2013 16:57:13 GMT -5
Codex why are you discrediting pre-orders when the majority of those who pre-ordered the album would have purchased it first week, regardless? Sure it inflates the numbers some, but to discard them ALL is ridiculous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 16:57:59 GMT -5
Jody Watley was hitting as early as 1977 as part of Shalamar
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 17:01:25 GMT -5
Gaga having additional hit eras in the next decade and beyond depends on how well her act can adapt to changing tastes in music. Her style in itself doesn't bode well for a decades long stay at the top. It seems to gimmicky.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 22, 2013 17:12:40 GMT -5
Jody Watley was hitting as early as 1977 as part of Shalamar Don't forget Jody won Best New Artist in 1988 for her solo debut.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 17:22:07 GMT -5
Codex why are you discrediting pre-orders when the majority of those who pre-ordered the album would have purchased it first week, regardless? Sure it inflates the numbers some, but to discard them ALL is ridiculous. Sure a lot of them would buy it the first week, but I think that percentage would be lower than you think. The huge drops also points to that. Not everyone is as aware of releases as people like us who visit music forums. Many Gaga fans probably saw in September on iTunes that a new Lady Gaga album was coming out, preordered it, then forgot about it for 2 months and probably would only buy it a few weeks after it actually came out if not for the pre-orders. I doubt that everyone after the first week is just a casual music listener. But again, I'm not discrediting them... They're obviously legit sales and counting them in the first week is the most logical, I just found it interesting that Born This Ways second week was more than ARTPOPs new sales on its debut week. If I compared Born This Ways first day to ARTPOPs first week, I wouldn't be discrediting the other 6 days of the week, I would just be comparing 2 pieces of data. Same thing here. I don't get the commotion...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 17:33:00 GMT -5
Jody Watley was hitting as early as 1977 as part of Shalamar Don't forget Jody won Best New Artist in 1988 for her solo debut. That's fine. in the context of this discussion though, There was a full decade of music with her name on it in some fashion that was charting prior to her "debut" album
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ILLUSION
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Post by ILLUSION on Nov 22, 2013 17:58:35 GMT -5
Lawling at the freak outs people are having on here. ARTPOP will sell just fine in the long run. *waits for DWYW to explode*
Haters, bow
@chartnews: chartnews: WW sales: #1 @ladygaga, ARTPOP 553,000 "While down sharply from Gaga's debut with Born This Way, the worldwide ARTPOP debut marks the biggest [sales week] of a female pop star this entire year. The album has topped charts from Latin America, North America, Europe, Asia, and more."
** Including Japan's early release sales, the album debuts with 611,000 copies.
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grandelf
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Post by grandelf on Nov 23, 2013 3:10:34 GMT -5
Flash in the pan isn't right either. She's So Unusual had like 5 hits in an era where that wasn't yet common Her music was mainstream for several years to follow But flash in the pan status can be a whole album, it is not uncommon to talk about "one album wonders", not only She's So Unusual but also the aforementioned Paula Abdul's Forever Your Girl, Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill or Jewel's Pieces of You. All of them had some mainstream success several years after those peaks but nothing compared to their flash in the pan periods. If Gaga's career continues like this then I would not be surprised if years later she will be viewed the same way and The Fame/The Fame Monster will be mentioned together with those albums.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 23, 2013 3:27:40 GMT -5
Interesting that Artpop is even considered as a failure when it's actually been the fastest selling mainstream pop album by a global star in several countries. For example here.
Of course she's not at her commercial peak now, no doubt about that, but the low sales tell more about the business and industry than Gaga.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 8:44:39 GMT -5
Flash in the pan isn't right either. She's So Unusual had like 5 hits in an era where that wasn't yet common Her music was mainstream for several years to follow But flash in the pan status can be a whole album, it is not uncommon to talk about "one album wonders", not only She's So Unusual but also the aforementioned Paula Abdul's Forever Your Girl, Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill or Jewel's Pieces of You. All of them had some mainstream success several years after those peaks but nothing compared to their flash in the pan periods. If Gaga's career continues like this then I would not be surprised if years later she will be viewed the same way and The Fame/The Fame Monster will be mentioned together with those albums. Cyndi Lauper is not a 'one album wonder' album #2 was double platinum Regarding singles, top 10 hits occurred all the way to 1989
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RadioBeatz
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Post by RadioBeatz on Nov 23, 2013 14:44:21 GMT -5
Shouldn't Artpop be compared with let's say, True Blue or Like A Prayer eras? at the time Madonna was at the top of her game while, now in a little less than 5 years Gaga blew her huge potential, we probably won't have Gaga news in 2038, maybe her "mark" will be similar to that of Cyndi Lauper.
When Madonna released Erotica, if I'm not wrong, she scored her first hit almost a decade ago. (Holiday, Lucky Star)
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Honeymoon
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Post by Honeymoon on Nov 23, 2013 14:59:01 GMT -5
This constant "Cyndi Lauper/Madonna" paradigm has to be the most overused and laziest pop music board argument ever. Things aren't that black and white or cyclical.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 15:00:12 GMT -5
Trying to make predictions about Gaga's future based on Madonna or Cyndi Lauper's career trajectories is pointless. Cyndi's hit-making career was pretty much completely over 5 years into her career. Even if Gaga were to never reach the heights of her early career again, it's unlikely that she'll fail to even chart again (like Cyndi did). Gaga's already had more hit singles than Cyndi Lauper, and Cyndi Lauper had 2 CHR/Pop #1s in her career (compared to Gaga's 7 so far). Madonna's career is pretty much unrivaled among female artists, so if her career doesn't align with Madonna's, that's not anything to worry about.
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Juanca
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Post by Juanca on Nov 23, 2013 15:58:50 GMT -5
Cyndi charted again with Hey Now (Girls just wanna have fun) in the 90s though, right? ;) just saying
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Nov 23, 2013 16:05:57 GMT -5
Female Pop Star Watch Q4 2013 (Total Sales after this week):
Katy Perry - 520,000 Miley Cyrus - 499,000 Lorde - 409,000 Lady Gaga - 325,000 Kelly Clarkson - 190,000 Britney Spears - 0
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 16:06:37 GMT -5
Cyndi charted again with Hey Now (Girls just wanna have fun) in the 90s though, right? ;) just saying Peaked at #87 on the Hot 100 but didn't make any airplay charts. It's her only single post-80s to chart on the Hot 100.
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Tortuga
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Post by Tortuga on Nov 23, 2013 18:46:14 GMT -5
50k?
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seaguy27
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Post by seaguy27 on Nov 23, 2013 21:59:23 GMT -5
Shouldn't Artpop be compared with let's say, True Blue or Like A Prayer eras? at the time Madonna was at the top of her game while, now in a little less than 5 years Gaga blew her huge potential, we probably won't have Gaga news in 2038, maybe her "mark" will be similar to that of Cyndi Lauper. When Madonna released Erotica, if I'm not wrong, she scored her first hit almost a decade ago. (Holiday, Lucky Star) Madonna's hot period lasted a pretty long time...84-92 when Erotica came. I think part of her backlash was not only the sex thing but also she had just saturated the media for so long people were sick of her. I think Madonna weathered the backlash well and resumed a successful career with smart moves.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 23, 2013 22:29:30 GMT -5
Best Buy has ARTPOP for $17.99! But, sale priced at $11.99 until Wednesday.
Barnes & Noble has it for $18.99. Sale priced at $16.99.
AS I said before, Target has it priced at $15.99.
What is Interscope thinking?
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 23, 2013 22:40:14 GMT -5
I wonder what the base price is for it set by the label? Is it possible that the retailers have it jacked up thinking it'll be the hottest seller? I do wonder if the sale price is having a larger impact than we would think...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 22:59:57 GMT -5
If we went by # of "hits", The Glee Cast would be the biggest artist in the history of music.
Whether it is Cyndi Lauper or Lady Gaga or Taylor Dayne or whomever. The careers are not really comparable. How many hits would Cyndi Lauper have had if iTunes were available in the 80s?
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Juanca
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Post by Juanca on Nov 24, 2013 0:04:33 GMT -5
I'll go to best buy then! I love gaga but I don't pay more than $14 for a non-deluxe or non-double cd anymore :--
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 10:55:04 GMT -5
If we went by # of "hits", The Glee Cast would be the biggest artist in the history of music. Whether it is Cyndi Lauper or Lady Gaga or Taylor Dayne or whomever. The careers are not really comparable. How many hits would Cyndi Lauper have had if iTunes were available in the 80s? That's why I focused on radio hits instead of Hot 100 hits. The airplay charts moved much faster back in the 80s, so it was actually easier back then for an act to rack up a greater number of hits back then than it is now.
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Mack
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Post by Mack on Nov 24, 2013 11:28:19 GMT -5
Interesting that Artpop is even considered as a failure when it's actually been the fastest selling mainstream pop album by a global star in several countries. People are just spazzing because she dropped from over 1m copies in one week to 260k. The album will sell fine in the long run.
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