shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 20, 2014 9:15:02 GMT -5
Oh, now I've seen everything. so ; let me get this straight. The Billboard Hot 100 Rock Songs chart is a sham, but the Billboard Hot 100 isn't? Comon guys, WTF? At least the Hot 100 Rock songs chart, featutres songs from Rock and Alt charts. If you have been following BillBoard charts for as long as I have; you could actually concider that chart to be a more traditional Bill Board chart. I've only seen the top 25, but at least that list actually features some quality music. I hate the new all-format genre charts as much as pretty much everybody else does (ok, maybe not as much as the folks over at the country board), but mainly because the terrible new all-format/streaming/downloads methodology has resulted in them all being essentially just filtered versions of the Hot 100 and constantly skewered to the poppiest of the crop. I treat the airplay charts as the more authoritative source on peaks because they're more accurate representations of the main demographics for those genres. Hot 100 on the other hand has really always been a popularity chart at heart and I'd say right now it's a fairly accurate representation of that, albeit a bit too heavily tilted towards streaming (which resulted in a hilarious 1-week chart life for a top ten song which only got there for being the soundtrack to a viral video, for example). But "quality" is a heavily subjective term so if you wanna go on calling the Hot 100 a "sham" you're gonna need to find a better argument for that. The simple explanation for the greater amount of country and rap is simply that more country and rap is being accepted by the public and fans of those genres have been increasing, so I have no idea where you get the assumption that Billboard is fixing them in their favor as you've ranted about in another thread.
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Web
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Post by Web on Sept 20, 2014 16:07:56 GMT -5
This is #1 on Billboard's Hot Rock Songs. If this does get huge, this better not turn into a Lorde situation at award shows where this is nominated for the rock categories. Then we will know how much of a joke Billboard is now. That chart is a joke, there's no actual "rock" songs on it anyways. It's a sham, they feature streaming and Itunes which is stupid. The problem with that chart (and the other genre charts) is that Billboard tries to fit thousands of songs into four insanely broad categories. The songs have to be either Pop, Rock, Country, or Hip-Hop/R&B, when there are hundreds or even thousands of sub-genres that divide songs within those four groups. (you could argue there are many more than four main groups, but that's what Billboard says so that's what I'll go off of for the purposes of the point) You get reasoning like this.... "Clearly 'Habits' isn't Hip-Hop/R&B and clearly it isn't Country, and it's a little different than the pop songs currently charting, so I guess it's rock."Those charts aren't reliable and shouldn't be taken as a representation of what genres songs fall into, I like to use them to see how close some of the Rock songs are to hitting the Hot 100 by comparing their position to the currently charting songs. But beyond that, they aren't of much use.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Sept 20, 2014 16:14:03 GMT -5
That chart is a joke, there's no actual "rock" songs on it anyways. It's a sham, they feature streaming and Itunes which is stupid. The problem with that chart (and the other genre charts) is that Billboard tries to fit thousands of songs into four insanely broad categories. The songs have to be either Pop, Rock, Country, or Hip-Hop/R&B, when there are hundreds or even thousands of sub-genres that divide songs within those four groups. (you could argue there are many more than four main groups, but that's what Billboard says so that's what I'll go off of for the purposes of the point) You get reasoning like this.... "Clearly 'Habits' isn't Hip-Hop/R&B and clearly it isn't Country, and it's a little different than the pop songs currently charting, so I guess it's rock."Those charts aren't reliable and shouldn't be taken as a representation of what genres songs fall into, I like to use them to see how close some of the Rock songs are to hitting the Hot 100 by comparing their position to the currently charting songs. But beyond that, they aren't of much use. That's why they're completely inaccurate for "rock" music.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 20, 2014 19:51:21 GMT -5
Billboard's problem is sometimes how they classify songs and I have sometimes wondered whether it's them who does that or if it's the label/manager/artist who decides what to classify songs as.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Sept 22, 2014 2:05:24 GMT -5
If you have been following Billboard for as long as I have you'll remeber that the HOT 100 used to feature the top songs of all genres. Alt,Rock, Country, Dance, R&B. It's always been an all genre chart. A fair chart would still feature the top songs of Rock and Alt. It's not longer like that at all. I do blame all those streaming and videos and ringtones. Youngsters just buy songs without even listening to them first just becuase they see a certain name. I like it better in the old days when it was just minimized to sales. I also concider the mediabase charts a more accurate showing of what's on the radio.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 8:26:31 GMT -5
If you have been following Billboard for as long as I have you'll remeber that the HOT 100 used to feature the top songs of all genres. Alt,Rock, Country, Dance, R&B. It's always been an all genre chart. A fair chart would still feature the top songs of Rock and Alt. It's not longer like that at all. I do blame all those streaming and videos and ringtones. Youngsters just buy songs without even listening to them first just becuase they see a certain name. I like it better in the old days when it was just minimized to sales. I also concider the mediabase charts a more accurate showing of what's on the radio. at least you get that its the consumers making the hot 100 "unfair" and not billboard themselves a sales only hot 100 would still be the same, look at the iTunes charts.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Sept 22, 2014 10:42:46 GMT -5
If you have been following Billboard for as long as I have you'll remeber that the HOT 100 used to feature the top songs of all genres. Alt,Rock, Country, Dance, R&B. It's always been an all genre chart. A fair chart would still feature the top songs of Rock and Alt. It's not longer like that at all. I do blame all those streaming and videos and ringtones. Youngsters just buy songs without even listening to them first just becuase they see a certain name. I like it better in the old days when it was just minimized to sales. I also concider the mediabase charts a more accurate showing of what's on the radio. Confused. Many top Rock and Alt songs do not reach large audiences on radio (relative to pop/country/mainstream formats) and do not sell well (relative to pop/hip-hop/country songs). Even if you remove streaming, I still don't see a scenario in which songs from those genres would be able to compete with the top pop hits. Any genre songs that did/do well on the Hot 100 were earning their success by resonating with significant #s of listeners and buyers. No one is preventing them from STILL doing that. Maddie and Tae got infinitely more press for "Girl in a Country Song" than all but the absolute biggest pop stars - and country radio is being very generous to that song. If it can't sell more than 20-30K a week, that's not Billboard's fault. The Black Keys' "Fever" comes from a major music name and received MASSIVE alt and rock airplay for a very long stretch of time. If it can't translate that to sales or airplay on mainstream formats, that's not Billboard's fault. Luke Bryan sold 500K+ first week albums, is a heartthrob (to both teenage/young adult girls AND moms/grandmas) is the biggest name in country music and is receiving monstrous airplay at country. If a song like his "Roller Coaster" can't go above ~35 on iTunes or receive massive crossover support from Hot AC, that's not Billboard's fault. Since we're talking about Tove Lo in this thread, note that she reached the Top 50 on the Hot 100 when her primary source of radio airplay/exposure was alternative (and "Habits" wasn't even big there). But people who heard the song bought it - Billboard didn't force people to do so.
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maine
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Post by maine on Sept 22, 2014 14:06:30 GMT -5
If you have been following Billboard for as long as I have you'll remeber that the HOT 100 used to feature the top songs of all genres. Alt,Rock, Country, Dance, R&B. It's always been an all genre chart. A fair chart would still feature the top songs of Rock and Alt. It's not longer like that at all. I do blame all those streaming and videos and ringtones. Youngsters just buy songs without even listening to them first just becuase they see a certain name. I like it better in the old days when it was just minimized to sales. I also concider the mediabase charts a more accurate showing of what's on the radio. Confused. Many top Rock and Alt songs do not reach large audiences on radio (relative to pop/country/mainstream formats) and do not sell well (relative to pop/hip-hop/country songs). Even if you remove streaming, I still don't see a scenario in which songs from those genres would be able to compete with the top pop hits. Any genre songs that did/do well on the Hot 100 were earning their success by resonating with significant #s of listeners and buyers. No one is preventing them from STILL doing that. Maddie and Tae got infinitely more press for "Girl in a Country Song" than all but the absolute biggest pop stars - and country radio is being very generous to that song. If it can't sell more than 20-30K a week, that's not Billboard's fault. The Black Keys' "Fever" comes from a major music name and received MASSIVE alt and rock airplay for a very long stretch of time. If it can't translate that to sales or airplay on mainstream formats, that's not Billboard's fault. Luke Bryan sold 500K+ first week albums, is a heartthrob (to both teenage/young adult girls AND moms/grandmas) is the biggest name in country music and is receiving monstrous airplay at country. If a song like his "Roller Coaster" can't go above ~35 on iTunes or receive massive crossover support from Hot AC, that's not Billboard's fault. Since we're talking about Tove Lo in this thread, note that she reached the Top 50 on the Hot 100 when her primary source of radio airplay/exposure was alternative (and "Habits" wasn't even big there). But people who heard the song bought it - Billboard didn't force people to do so. This is pretty much 100% correct. It's not Billboard's fault that Rock songs aren't selling, it's just the general public doesn't want them. The big flaw that Billboard has is their formula where streaming makes up like all of the chart it seems ("Harlem Shake", "Gentleman", others getting high peaks w/o any radio or digital sales). Even with a balanced formula, Rock still wouldn't really benefit from it, since Rock is pretty much non-existent outside of radio sadly. The only Rock that sells is Pop Rock, or Rock tailored to the Pop audience. The general public really decides how songs chart on the Hot 100, it's just Billboard that conducts it.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Oct 5, 2014 23:09:46 GMT -5
Even though this song derives from the same Alternative synth pop style of the Banks, Broods and Lorde songs; this one just hasn't hit the nail with me yet. There is something missing.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Oct 6, 2014 6:04:51 GMT -5
Even though this song derives from the same Alternative synth pop style of the Banks, Broods and Lorde songs; this one just hasn't hit the nail with me yet. There is something missing. Wut... I thought you liked this
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Oct 7, 2014 1:25:14 GMT -5
@ Forty Six & 2 Ahead of Me.
I don't hate the Tove Lo song, but it isn't even in my personal Top 50 yet.
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Oct 7, 2014 21:00:20 GMT -5
I still like this better than "Beggin' For Thread" but I'm starting to like "Mother & Father" more now. Still love this song, but I want a new Tove Lo single at this point.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Oct 7, 2014 21:03:15 GMT -5
Beggin For Thread is better than Mother & Father which is better than this.
None of the last two are above a D+.
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Oct 7, 2014 21:10:14 GMT -5
Okay, ranking female-fronted songs currently charting on Alt.
Yellow Flicker Beat: A Habits: A- Desire: B+ Beggin For Thread: B Mother & Father: A- Cool Kids: B+
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 22:14:15 GMT -5
VOMIT EVERYWHEREE
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Oct 7, 2014 22:18:08 GMT -5
Yellow Flicker: C- Habits: F Desire: B- Beggin: B- Mother: D+ Cool Kids: D+
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Oct 7, 2014 22:22:50 GMT -5
^ Eww.
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Post by American Idiot on Oct 7, 2014 22:25:23 GMT -5
Yellow Flicker: B Habits: D Desire: B Beggin: C+ Mother: D Cool Kids: B
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Oct 7, 2014 22:36:00 GMT -5
I'm not big on this song, but I have to say there is a song on her new album called "Not On Drugs" which I think is a 100x better than this song. I'm hoping that's her next single.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Oct 7, 2014 22:37:16 GMT -5
I'm not big on this song, but I have to say there is a song on her new album called "Not On Drugs" which I think is a 100x better than this song. I'm hoping that's her next single. that's even less alt than this one, lol But it's a better song
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Oct 7, 2014 22:42:00 GMT -5
I'm not big on this song, but I have to say there is a song on her new album called "Not On Drugs" which I think is a 100x better than this song. I'm hoping that's her next single. that's even less alt than this one, lol But it's a better song Haha true but I never considered her alt in the first place
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maine
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Post by maine on Oct 7, 2014 22:43:27 GMT -5
I'm not big on this song, but I have to say there is a song on her new album called "Not On Drugs" which I think is a 100x better than this song. I'm hoping that's her next single. It is the next single (well at least everywhere else). The US will more than likely get that next.
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Web
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Post by Web on Oct 7, 2014 22:43:27 GMT -5
here are mine i guess. Yellow Flicker Beat: C- Habits: D+ Desire: C+ Beggin For Thread: A-/B+ Mother & Father: C- Cool Kids: F (this song should go away)
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Oct 7, 2014 22:59:59 GMT -5
Yellow Flicker Beat: We'll See Habits: B+ Desire: B- Beggin' For Thread: We'll See Mother & Father: We'll See Cool Kids: We'll See
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Oct 7, 2014 23:04:04 GMT -5
I love Not On Drugs! I was hoping for it to be the next single, so she could follow a song about being high all the time with a song called Not On Drugs.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Oct 7, 2014 23:51:12 GMT -5
Yellow Flicker Beat: C (This is actually the highest I've ranked a Lorde single ) Habits: D Desire: C+ Beggin' For Thread: Haven't really heard Mother and Father: D Cool Kids: Haven't really heard Sorry, but I'm really not a fan of female singers, especially solo female singer-songwriters.
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Oct 8, 2014 3:16:02 GMT -5
Yellow Flicker Beat: B+ Habits: C+ Desire: B Beggin' For Thread: A- Mother & Father: B- Cool Kids: B
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Oct 8, 2014 5:57:48 GMT -5
Mostley all high grades for me, except "Habits" I can't get past that dumb line about the twinkies. I can definately see more female fronted Alt Synth Pop charting soon, but I do wish it was balenced out with a bit more Female fronted rock too. I just wouldn't want the females to get stuck in the "It's either Synth Pop orietned music or we don't chart you on Alt" Pile. Dear Rouge should be on alt. Anyway,
Yellow Flicker Beat: B+(still new to me) Habits: C Desire: B Beggin For Thread: A- Mother & Father: A Cool Kids: A+ (One of my favourite Indie Alt songs of the year)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 23:31:44 GMT -5
how is it getting a big bullet this late
stop
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Oct 8, 2014 23:58:50 GMT -5
how is it getting a big bullet this late Because it's awesome. It's not going anywhere anyway. Way too much stuff for it to jump over, I think it'll just stick between 16-20 limbo like it has for what seems like an eternity.
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