Red
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Post by Red on Aug 21, 2015 12:24:47 GMT -5
Honestly, compared to the crap that has been doing really well on the Alt chart lately, this is a breath of fresh air in comparison. If the choice is between, say, Halsey or this for a top 5 Alt run, I'm running with "S.O.B." 10 out of 10 times. I agree with you on that, but I guess I'm one of the few who get bothered by seeing songs like these on higher chart positions; than say, Breaking Benjamin - "Angels Fall": which would probobly have a better shot at that top 5 , if songs like these just stayed to the AAA territory. Breaking Benjamin? Just wait until Deftones miss out on the top 20 of Alt with their next first single (especially if it's of "Tempest"-level quality). THEN you'll see me get angry. >
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 21, 2015 22:02:01 GMT -5
People are probably going to hate me for saying this, but I really don't understand what's Alternative about Breaking Benjamin or Shinedown - to me, it's just straight rock, with a straight beat and power chords - if you had to make a comparison, IMO Shinedown and Breaking Benjamin are a lot more similar to Def Leppard and Motley Crue than they are to the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Weezer
The reason they charted so much on Alternative in the 2000s IMO is that there really wasn't that much new "Alternative" music to choose from - what else were Alt stations going to play back then?
Now I need to go hide
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Aug 21, 2015 22:04:27 GMT -5
I agree with you on that, but I guess I'm one of the few who get bothered by seeing songs like these on higher chart positions; than say, Breaking Benjamin - "Angels Fall": which would probobly have a better shot at that top 5 , if songs like these just stayed to the AAA territory. Breaking Benjamin? Just wait until Deftones miss out on the top 20 of Alt with their next first single (especially if it's of "Tempest"-level quality). THEN you'll see me get angry. > Don't say it... Chevelle missing out was bad enough.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 21, 2015 22:30:01 GMT -5
People are probably going to hate me for saying this, but I really don't understand what's Alternative about Breaking Benjamin or Shinedown They were successful in the past on Alt, so entitlement factor. Enough said. No more words. Ok, I lied. I do have one more note. Straight beats and power chords don't make a song un-alternative, that's a ridiculous notion.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 21, 2015 22:35:06 GMT -5
People are probably going to hate me for saying this, but I really don't understand what's Alternative about Breaking Benjamin or Shinedown - to me, it's just straight rock, with a straight beat and power chords - if you had to make a comparison, IMO Shinedown and Breaking Benjamin are a lot more similar to Def Leppard and Motley Crue than they are to the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Weezer The reason they charted so much on Alternative in the 2000s IMO is that there really wasn't that much new "Alternative" music to choose from - what else were Alt stations going to play back then? Now I need to go hide Alternative is a rock format. Breaking Benjamin and Shinedown are rock bands. Couldn't get any more clearer than that.
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 21, 2015 22:43:30 GMT -5
People are probably going to hate me for saying this, but I really don't understand what's Alternative about Breaking Benjamin or Shinedown - to me, it's just straight rock, with a straight beat and power chords - if you had to make a comparison, IMO Shinedown and Breaking Benjamin are a lot more similar to Def Leppard and Motley Crue than they are to the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Weezer The reason they charted so much on Alternative in the 2000s IMO is that there really wasn't that much new "Alternative" music to choose from - what else were Alt stations going to play back then? Now I need to go hide Alternative is a rock format. Breaking Benjamin and Shinedown are rock bands. Couldn't get any more clearer than that. All rock bands are Alternative?
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 21, 2015 22:47:04 GMT -5
Alternative is a rock format. Breaking Benjamin and Shinedown are rock bands. Couldn't get any more clearer than that. All rock bands are Alternative? If the people like/request them, sure, why not? I wouldn't mind seeing Guns N' Roses or AC/DC charting on Alternative.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 21, 2015 22:47:29 GMT -5
Alternative is a rock format. Breaking Benjamin and Shinedown are rock bands. Couldn't get any more clearer than that. All rock bands are Alternative? If Muse and AWOLNATION can go Top 10 on Active, then Breaking Benjamin and Shinedown should at least do something on Alternative. I'm not a huge fan of either bands, but there's a huge double standard regarding format crossovers.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 21, 2015 22:48:02 GMT -5
All rock bands are Alternative? If the people like/request them, sure, why not? I wouldn't mind seeing Guns N' Roses or AC/DC charting on Alternative. Well, I mean, we have to draw a line somewhere...
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wheatsquares33
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Post by wheatsquares33 on Aug 21, 2015 22:49:35 GMT -5
The Rolling Stones, Katy Perry, Guns N' Roses, Tom Petty, Ellie Goulding, AC/DC, and Metallica have all managed to pull Alt hits. It's such a broad genre, I don't think there's too much in the way of rock that can't chart on Alt with the right promotion.
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 21, 2015 22:52:16 GMT -5
All rock bands are Alternative? If Muse and AWOLNATION can go Top 10 on Active, then Breaking Benjamin and Shinedown should at least do something on Alternative. I'm not a huge fan of either bands, but there's a huge double standard regarding format crossovers. This. I mean if some of the alternative hits can chart in the lower rankings on Active (The Wolf for example), then some of the Active hits should do so on Alternative too. However, yes, we have to draw a line too in that we shouldn't be seeing artists such as Slash or Five Finger Death Punch scoring top 10 hits. They should go top 20 at most. I mean, this was like that from 2010 or even 2011.
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 21, 2015 22:55:36 GMT -5
Shinedown, Breaking Benjamin, Buckcherry, Godsmack, etc. all fall under the "alternative metal" (metal with alternative rock elements) wheelhouse, which kinda fell somewhere between straight-up hard rock and alternative rock. I find it closer to the former but, well, your mileage may vary
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 21, 2015 23:04:14 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO
Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though
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wheatsquares33
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Post by wheatsquares33 on Aug 21, 2015 23:12:18 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though I think it depends on the time frame, to be honest. For example, Matchbox Twenty and Third Eye Blind are often considered post-grunge bands (according to Wikipedia, at least), but if they started releasing music today, I think they would be considered indie rock. Post-grunge was popular in the late 90s when they broke into the mainstream, so I think they're kind of lumped together with that new wave of post-grunge artists. Bring Me the Horizon, Of Mice and Men, Nothing More, Beartooth, and Asking Alexandria would have probably charted on Alt in the 2000s, but with the format shifting to indie rock primarily, they don't stand much of a chance (despite Throne nearing the Top 50 currently). Really, I think people read too much into genres. If a band has a sound that listeners to Alternative radio like and request, then I'd consider it Alternative. I don't think there's a set in stone definition of Alternative rock. I actually liked it better when the chart was called "Modern Rock" so this kind of debate couldn't really happen. If a song is new and rock, it's modern rock. There's no need for the whole "WTF Alt?" discussion.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 21, 2015 23:19:07 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though I think it depends on the time frame, to be honest. For example, Matchbox Twenty and Third Eye Blind are often considered post-grunge bands (according to Wikipedia, at least), but if they started releasing music today, I think they would be considered indie rock. Post-grunge was popular in the late 90s when they broke into the mainstream, so I think they're kind of lumped together with that new wave of post-grunge artists. Bring Me the Horizon, Of Mice and Men, Nothing More, Beartooth, and Asking Alexandria would have probably charted on Alt in the 2000s, but with the format shifting to indie rock primarily, they don't stand much of a chance (despite Throne nearing the Top 50 currently). Really, I think people read too much into genres. If a band has a sound that listeners to Alternative radio like and request, then I'd consider it Alternative. I don't think there's a set in stone definition of Alternative rock. I actually liked it better when the chart was called "Modern Rock" so this kind of debate couldn't really happen. If a song is new and rock, it's modern rock. There's no need for the whole "WTF Alt?" discussion. Really, the descent into indie-land really only started once Billboard changed the chart name from Modern Rock to Alternative...
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 21, 2015 23:19:41 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though I'd say bands like Cradle of Filth, Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, etc. In short, the bands that have no chance even on Active.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Aug 21, 2015 23:21:22 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though I think it depends on the time frame, to be honest. For example, Matchbox Twenty and Third Eye Blind are often considered post-grunge bands (according to Wikipedia, at least), but if they started releasing music today, I think they would be considered indie rock. Post-grunge was popular in the late 90s when they broke into the mainstream, so I think they're kind of lumped together with that new wave of post-grunge artists. Bring Me the Horizon, Of Mice and Men, Nothing More, Beartooth, and Asking Alexandria would have probably charted on Alt in the 2000s, but with the format shifting to indie rock primarily, they don't stand much of a chance (despite Throne nearing the Top 50 currently). Really, I think people read too much into genres. If a band has a sound that listeners to Alternative radio like and request, then I'd consider it Alternative. I don't think there's a set in stone definition of Alternative rock. I actually liked it better when the chart was called "Modern Rock" so this kind of debate couldn't really happen. If a song is new and rock, it's modern rock. There's no need for the whole "WTF Alt?" discussion. I'd really like it if the format would go back to "Modern Rock".
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 21, 2015 23:32:07 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though I'd say bands like Cradle of Filth, Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, etc. In short, the bands that have no chance even on Active. Maybe they should change the name of the Active Rock chart to "Alternative Rock", and the name of the Alternative chart to "Alternative Pop"
I think what's confusing right now is that most people currently listen to Alternative radio as an Alternative to pop, not as an Alternative to rock - the reason X Ambassadors are Alternative is that they offer an alternative to listening to Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran
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shakermaker
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 21, 2015 23:40:23 GMT -5
I guess my question is if Shinedown, Godsmack, Breaking Benjamin, etc. are "alternative metal," what are some examples of current rock bands that are just straight up metal and not Alternative at all? (and why?) Otherwise, literally everything being recorded in the rock genre is Alternative, which doesn't make any sense IMO Completely understand the rock crossover thing, though Really, I think people read too much into genres. If a band has a sound that listeners to Alternative radio like and request, then I'd consider it Alternative. I don't think there's a set in stone definition of Alternative rock. I actually liked it better when the chart was called "Modern Rock" so this kind of debate couldn't really happen. If a song is new and rock, it's modern rock. There's no need for the whole "WTF Alt?" discussion. This should be the final, definitive point in this discussion imo.
In the end whatever gets played on a certain format is all up to the format's programmers and audience, not about our own personal genre classifications which nobody can agree on.
If active wants to drop in some alternative music (Foos, Muse, Weezer, Mumford, etc.) into the mix because their current audience wants it, well, that's up to them, but they're two separate audiences and alternative isn't obliged to follow suit if their audience says otherwise.
If the current alternative audience wants metal then by all means play metal. If they don't, then there's no business sending a metal song into the top 20 based on past performance alone.
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Post by K. on Aug 22, 2015 6:20:14 GMT -5
I loved Nathaniel Rateliff's Falling Faster solo album from 2013. Was glad to see this here.
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Post by The Party Captain on Aug 22, 2015 12:54:43 GMT -5
Good luck trying to define alternative rock. You can't even define "rock." It's a platitude. The term's been co-opted over the last 75 years to mean so many different things. You have punk rock, country rock, rap rock, industrial rock, etc. Even Kanye calls himself the biggest rockstar on the planet. If we're going by the 1950's connotation of "rock 'n' roll," then this song is the most "rock" track on the chart.
A genre in itself is a cross-pollination of other genres. We're not comparing colors of paint at Home Depot. We're talking about music, and the only real litmus test in art is whether you nod your head or shake it.
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Aug 23, 2015 9:35:01 GMT -5
Kill this song before it can breed. I would say it usurps "The Ground Walks" as the worst song on Alt right now.
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Aug 23, 2015 12:16:15 GMT -5
I remember when it wasn't cool to love Amy Winehouse and all my friends hated "Rehab". If you don't listen to much music from the 50s and 60s, you can't truly appreciate this sound.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 24, 2015 2:06:08 GMT -5
Already at #31 with a 209 bullet. That kinda movement and the second highest bullet on the alt chart ;for a song like this ,makes no sense to me at all. Not an horrendous/abysmal song, but what Alt stations are priming this to be the saving grace of alt rock? Not mine. That's for sure. I'm scared to think the damage this is gonna do on the Alt charts in the weeks to come. :o
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 24, 2015 2:18:38 GMT -5
This got an On the Verge Deal, at least on Alt
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 24, 2015 2:31:00 GMT -5
This got an On the Verge Deal, at least on Alt Sorry for ignorance, What does that mean? Does that kinda deal reflect on that bullet?
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 24, 2015 2:41:25 GMT -5
This got an On the Verge Deal, at least on Alt Sorry for ignorance, What does that mean? Does that kinda deal reflect on that bullet? Yes. Songs such as Could Have Been Me, Renegades, Out of the Black (Active), Stolen Dance and Trainwreck 1979 all had OTV deals, hence why they had huge bullets initially. Some were huge, others, not so much.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 25, 2015 0:48:47 GMT -5
That's almost like giving preferance to certain songs. Not fair. >:(
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 25, 2015 4:55:43 GMT -5
Top 30 on Alternative:
42 30 NATHANIEL RATELIFF/NIGHTSWEATS S.O.B 436 182 254 2.073
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 26, 2015 19:26:20 GMT -5
This will be huge, especially with what's stated in the advertisement helping it. I think Jimmy Fallon must have helped increase exposure to them a lot.
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