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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 12:22:23 GMT -5
Lol an album is doing 700k/week and some people are WORRYING Also, Lover is still #1 on Spotify and shaping to be THE SINGLE from the album and its journey has just started. Nobody is worrying. And people are making a big deal out of it the SAME WAY you made a big deal of Drake's Scorpion. I revisited that thread and a lot of you said 700K SPS, down 300K SPS from Views was a massive drop. A lot of you said his pure sale figures were too low despite him using no bundles whatsoever and conveniently leaving out the fact that Views wasn't available on Spotify in it's first two weeks, which drove up his pure sale figures. A lot of you said he did poorly on Spotify despite putting up the biggest first day figures in Spotify US history. Don't try to change your tune now. Taylor is a mega star. People will make a big deal out of anything she drops. The same way people will make a big deal of whatever Adele or Drake drops. It comes with the territory. Deal with it.
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sam8432
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Post by sam8432 on Aug 25, 2019 12:28:34 GMT -5
Maybe someone has asked this already, but did Taylor remove the "Hey kids! Spelling is fun!" bit from "ME!", or was it video-exclusive? I was pretty sure it was in the actual song before but I heard the whole album on Spotify and that bit wasn't in it. I noticed that too! It’s only the album version that has that part cut out, unless the single version was changed after the fact.
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Aug 25, 2019 12:31:53 GMT -5
I cant wait to see the numbers that Rihanna will pull, especially with this being her first album released in the crux of the streaming era.
If her lead single is a smash-hit then... I'm truly not ready.
Adele also. I feel like she'll do damage also even with pure sales included.
O.T: Swift's first week will surely be great for what it's worth but her second week won't be. Her 2nd day Spotify numbers are cute, that's it. Cute. Nothing special. I'd be more concerned about her drops on Apple Music however.
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Aug 25, 2019 12:34:07 GMT -5
Maybe someone has asked this already, but did Taylor remove the "Hey kids! Spelling is fun!" bit from "ME!", or was it video-exclusive? I was pretty sure it was in the actual song before but I heard the whole album on Spotify and that bit wasn't in it. Why was it removed in the first place? LMAO. I know she was being dragged from all corners of the web for those lyrics but... Surely that wasn't the reason?
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 25, 2019 12:34:51 GMT -5
Lol an album is doing 700k/week and some people are WORRYING Y'all are such hypocrites lol.
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sam8432
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Post by sam8432 on Aug 25, 2019 12:44:46 GMT -5
Does Lover have a chance to reach the Top 10 this week? It seems to be doing pretty well in sales and streaming.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 12:50:40 GMT -5
I cant wait to see the numbers that Rihanna will pull, especially with this being her first album released in the crux of the streaming era. If her lead single is a smash-hit then... I'm truly not ready. Adele also. I feel like she'll do damage also even with pure sales included. O.T: Swift's first week will surely be great for what it's worth but her second week won't be. Her 2nd day Spotify numbers are cute, that's it. Cute. Nothing special. I'd be more concerned about her drops on Apple Music however. Rihanna isn't pulling up to 300-400K SPS first week, especially if she doesn't use bundles. Rihanna has never been an artist who moves a ton of album units first week. She didn't move massive first week album units during the digital era, which is when she was at her strongest and most successful and she sure as hell won't be doing so now. Anti was highly anticipated, much like her forthcoming album is now, and what did it end up doing? Here's a list of her biggest album weeks, from highest to lowest: Unapologetic: 238K Loud: 207K Talk That Talk: 198K Rated R: 181K Anti: 166K Good Girl Gone Bad: 162K A Girl Like Me: 115K Music of the Sun: 69K Adele's numbers will be massively lower than the last time she dropped. I wish we'd stop setting unrealistic expectations for these artists. Pure/physical sales are DEAD. Gone. And they're never coming back. Taylor Swift pulled every trick in the book and she'll be lucky to pull 750K SPS by the end of the tracking week. When Adele drops her album, iTunes would have been scrapped. She might move strong physical units in her first week but even I don't see her doing 1M+ SPS because she's really weak on streaming platforms and her songs are mostly ballads - slow songs that a lot of people won't be so eager to stream for an entire tracking week. These artists doing much lower figures than they're used to do isn't a reflection of them not being as potent commercially as they used to be. It's a reflection of the industry today. People just don't wanna buy albums like they used to. Vinyl sales are still stable because they're like collector items, but very soon, they'll start to drop, too. Streaming is the present and the future of the music industry and we'll continue to see the biggest artists who haven't fully transitioned into streaming giants put up really poor first week figures.
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Aug 25, 2019 13:22:21 GMT -5
I cant wait to see the numbers that Rihanna will pull, especially with this being her first album released in the crux of the streaming era. If her lead single is a smash-hit then... I'm truly not ready. Adele also. I feel like she'll do damage also even with pure sales included. O.T: Swift's first week will surely be great for what it's worth but her second week won't be. Her 2nd day Spotify numbers are cute, that's it. Cute. Nothing special. I'd be more concerned about her drops on Apple Music however. Rihanna isn't pulling up to 300-400K SPS first week, especially if she doesn't use bundles. Rihanna has never been an artist who moves a ton of album units first week. She didn't move massive first week album units during the digital era, which is when she was at her strongest and most successful and she sure as hell won't be doing so now. Anti was highly anticipated, much like her forthcoming album is now, and what did it end up doing? Here's a list of her biggest album weeks, from highest to lowest: Unapologetic: 238K Loud: 207K Talk That Talk: 198K Rated R: 181K Anti: 166K Good Girl Gone Bad: 162K A Girl Like Me: 115K Music of the Sun: 69K Adele's numbers will be massively lower than the last time she dropped. I wish we'd stop setting unrealistic expectations for these artists. Pure/physical sales are DEAD. Gone. And they're never coming back. Taylor Swift pulled every trick in the book and she'll be lucky to pull 750K SPS by the end of the tracking week. When Adele drops her album, iTunes would have been scrapped. She might move strong physical units in her first week but even I don't see her doing 1M+ SPS because she's really weak on streaming platforms and her songs are mostly ballads - slow songs that a lot of people won't be so eager to stream for an entire tracking week. These artists doing much lower figures than they're used to do isn't a reflection of them not being as potent commercially as they used to be. It's a reflection of the industry today. People just don't wanna buy albums like they used to. Vinyl sales are still stable because they're like collector items, but very soon, they'll start to drop, too. Streaming is the present and the future of the music industry and we'll continue to see the biggest artists who haven't fully transitioned into streaming giants put up really poor first week figures. You're right in the sense that Rihanna has never been a big first-week seller (much like Bruno Mars), her bread and butter has always been her longevity where she is far and above her peers in that mode. Nonetheless, the only direct 'Female' competition Rihanna has had in the streaming era thus far is Ariana Grande and even then she still hasn't surpassed Rihanna's overall Spotify streams total - ~18B as of 2019. Rihanna is a streaming behemoth, especially worldwide, and even though she hasn't released an album since 2016, her recurrent & weekly/monthly streams/listeners are still as HIGH as ever. Ultimately, I'll be curious to see how first week figures are presented now that SPS is involved. "ANTI" debuted with 166K in its first tracking week and that was without Spotify & AM - the album wasn't on streaming platforms until mid-way through the third week of its release. Nevertheless, it's moved 3.2M+ SPS in the U.S and ~7M SPS WW. Only Drake and Ed Sheeran have moved more units since and arguably Dua Lipa even though she practically put every single she's ever released on one single album. (I wouldn't count Adele as 80% of '25's' units are from pure sales). Grande's "Sweetener" and "TU,N" haven't even surpassed "ANTI" in overall SPS yet and they are much more recent albums where streaming is exponentially bigger. Adele is also very big on streaming. Both '21' and '25' have over 2.5B+ streams on Spotify even though both albums have sold +35M and +22M WW respectively. No other artist has ever nor will ever make that connection between pure sales and streaming. Yes, Adele is a ballad artist but I wouldn't say she's a "weak streaming artist" nor is she "weak on streaming platforms" at all - I'm not sure where you've found evidence to prove that she's "weak" exactly in any capacity? You're also forgetting that "Hello" debuted with 8M+ streams WW on Spotify in... 2015. How many artists have surpassed that total since? 3, 4? That said, you're also right that artists who were once big in the Digital era will see their unit value fall now that we're in the streaming era. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga etc. have proven that.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 25, 2019 13:37:25 GMT -5
Saturday streaming totals!
| Spotify | Apple Music | Apple Music (-Lover) | #1 | Ransom (2.083) | Hot | Hot | #2 | Lover (1.934) | Bad Bad Bad | Bad Bad Bad | #3 | The Man (1.604) | No Guidance | No Guidance | #4 | Cruel Summer (1.453) | Baby | Baby | #5 | I Forgot That You Existed (1.415) | Lover | Ransom | #6 | Paper Rings (1.198) | The Man | Money in the Grave | #7 | Truth Hurts (1.187) | I Forgot That You Existed | What's the Move | #8 | You Need to Calm Down (1.167) | Cruel Summer | Truth Hurts | #9 | Senorita (1.133) | Ransom | Just How It Is | #10 | I Think He Knows (1.117) | Money in the Grave | Surf |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 13:55:19 GMT -5
kierz7 you made valid points. My overall point is that we shouldn't set unrealistically high expectations for artists, especially now with physical sales dead in the water. I've never disputed Rihanna's power and potency as a streaming artist. Her, Drake and Ed Sheeran are the three best cases of artists who debuted in the digital sales era, but are still dominant in the streaming era. I also know that Anti's release was botched. I'm just saying, commercial performance expectations for Rihanna shouldn't be high. It's no doubt that her forthcoming album will have a ton of hits and generate a ton of interest. I just don't think it'll result in a high debut week. That also shouldn't matter because consistency is what matters in the streaming era and Rihanna has that. And the truth that some Rihanna fans might not want to face is that people are starting to get tired of her radio silence as far as releasing music is concerned. You can only keep fans waiting for so long before anticipation turns to abandonment. I believe she'll drop an album before this year runs out but she's really cutting it close. Adele is a force, yes, but her releases are far too few and in-between. That won't fly in the streaming era. In 11 years, she has released only 3 albums. Granted, those 3 albums combined are bigger than some artists' entire discography, but still. Dropping 1 album every 4 years isn't the best way to have a career. Fans will eventually move on to someone else. It's just that it's ridiculously hard to make another star who can come close to replicating Adele's success or talent. Talking about Taylor/Rihanna/Adele, I expect 3 massive stadium tours following their new albums. I'm looking forward to attending those.
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Aug 25, 2019 13:59:33 GMT -5
at certain people saying that Taylor pulled every trick in the book. I don't know how old these people are but this would be a very normal album rollout 4/5 years ago for a Pop diva album. Maybe people are used to popstars promoting anymore.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 25, 2019 14:05:09 GMT -5
I wouldn't underestimate Rihanna though. While she was obviously huge by the end of the last decade, I don't think she truly became an albums artist until ANTI, which was her first album that didn't seem to rely nearly completely on the success of the singles the way her previous ones did. Of course, she's released nothing since and that album came years after the one before it and it's been years since its release. Her celebrity has grown immensely since she was releasing an album a year and ANTI was marred with the Tidal stuff, which hurt its first week numbers. I could see her next album pulling in her best first-week numbers so far, easily, if 238K for unapologetic is her highest so far.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 15:15:28 GMT -5
at certain people saying that Taylor pulled every trick in the book. I don't know how old these people are but this would be a very normal album rollout 4/5 years ago for a Pop diva album. Maybe people are used to popstars promoting anymore. I'm the only one who said that and yes, she's pulling every trick in the book. I said the same thing about ASTROWORLD. It's not a crime, but that doesn't mean people can't call it out for what it is. Doing a gazillion bundles to boost first day/first week sales IS pulling every trick in the book. Especially with how far Taylor tends to take it. Every pop star doesn't go as far as Taylor goes to boost first week physical sale numbers and it's something she has ALWAYS done.
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Aug 25, 2019 15:22:45 GMT -5
at certain people saying that Taylor pulled every trick in the book. I don't know how old these people are but this would be a very normal album rollout 4/5 years ago for a Pop diva album. Maybe people are used to popstars promoting anymore. I'm the only one who said that and yes, she's pulling every trick in the book. I said the same thing about ASTROWORLD. It's not a crime, but that doesn't mean people can't call it out for what it is. Doing a gazillion bundles to boost first day/first week sales IS pulling every trick in the book. Especially with how far Taylor tends to take it. Every pop star doesn't go as far as Taylor goes to boost first week physical sale numbers and it's something she has ALWAYS done. She's pulled 'every trick' in the book. It's a fact, and she does it rather often. To this day, according her fans, she didn't pull 'every trick in the book' with "ME!" Ignore her stans who argue otherwise... LMAO.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 25, 2019 15:25:15 GMT -5
at certain people saying that Taylor pulled every trick in the book. I don't know how old these people are but this would be a very normal album rollout 4/5 years ago for a Pop diva album. Maybe people are used to popstars promoting anymore. Yeah if she really wanted to pull every trick she'd announce a stadium tour this week (after all pre-orders, Day 1 sales, merch bundles etc. were bought) and give away an album with each ticket lol. She just wrapped up the biggest North American tour EVER by a woman, with more than 2 million people in attendance, so that would be the easy way for sure
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 15:29:04 GMT -5
at certain people saying that Taylor pulled every trick in the book. I don't know how old these people are but this would be a very normal album rollout 4/5 years ago for a Pop diva album. Maybe people are used to popstars promoting anymore. Yeah if she really wanted to pull every trick she'd announce a stadium tour this week (after all pre-orders, Day 1 sales, merch bundles etc. were bought) and give away an album with each ticket lol. She just wrapped up the biggest North American tour EVER by a woman, with more than 2 million people in attendance, so that would be the easy way for sure She did it the last time she dropped an album. The only reason she isn't doing it now is because she isn't done planning her tour yet. She's still working out venues, dates, etc. She probably won't start playing shows till early next year or really late this year at the earliest.
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Aug 25, 2019 15:32:39 GMT -5
Some people are truly delusional LMFAO
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 15:39:07 GMT -5
kierz7 I didn't even mean "trick" in a negative sense. I just meant that she tends to go ALL OUT for all of her albums, which again, I'll state, isn't a crime, but she does things that 90% of other mainstream artists don't do. You won't find another mainstream artist doing this many bundles or going to such lengths. Putting 4 albums together with diary entries, making merch bundles, teaming up with Amazon + Target and making physical versions of her album available on her website. Her fans love it and support her when she does stuff like that so I'm not knocking her for doing any of that stuff, but the reason why there's been talk in the industry to put a limit on how/which bundles can count towards the Billboard 200 is exactly because of things like this: artists exploiting every/any avenue to boost their physical sale units to gain as high a debut week as possible, especially with pure sales now being a thing of the past. You call it out for what it is and some people get their panties in a wad.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 25, 2019 15:43:13 GMT -5
Yeah if she really wanted to pull every trick she'd announce a stadium tour this week (after all pre-orders, Day 1 sales, merch bundles etc. were bought) and give away an album with each ticket lol. She just wrapped up the biggest North American tour EVER by a woman, with more than 2 million people in attendance, so that would be the easy way for sure She did it the last time she dropped an album. The only reason she isn't doing it now is because she isn't done planning her tour yet. She's still working out venues, dates, etc. She probably won't start playing shows till early next year or really late this year at the earliest. Maybe she should have given vouchers for a "future Taylor album" to all 2 million+ people that attended Rep Tour in the US, much like what Post Malone is doing with his merch right now lol. That would have guaranteed her biggest sales week yet. I genuinely don't think Taylor is pulling tricks -- she's doing all very standard things (Target editions and merch bundles are very common) but she knows how to promote things or give a new spin. The Stella x Taylor collection is the first time I'm seeing an artist collab in a way to make merch environmentally sustainable, for example, and her "reputation magazines" at Target last time were pretty smart too. Other artists generally release the same old merch, get backlash on twitter for how ugly/cheaply-made the merch is, and never speak of the merch after debut week lol EDIT: You won't find another mainstream artist doing this many bundles or going to such lengths. Putting 4 albums together with diary entries, making merch bundles, teaming up with Amazon + Target and making physical versions of her album available on her website. Literally every other artist has their albums on their websites, Target gets exclusive albums from a lot of artists, making different versions of the same product to get people to buy multiples of it is nothing new either (even Billboard did it with their BLACKPINK cover lol), merch bundles are extremely common in this climate EDIT 2: she also has the fairly common "Urban Outfitters Exclusive Cassette" option. I'm surprised there's no vinyls yet.
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Aug 25, 2019 15:49:09 GMT -5
kierz7 I didn't even mean "trick" in a negative sense. I just meant that she tends to go ALL OUT for all of her albums, which again, I'll state, isn't a crime, but she does things that 90% of other mainstream artists don't do. You won't find another mainstream artist doing this many bundles or going to such lengths. Putting 4 albums together with diary entries, making merch bundles, teaming up with Amazon + Target and making physical versions of her album available on her website. Her fans love it and support her when she does stuff like that so I'm not knocking her for doing any of that stuff, but the reason why there's been talk in the industry to put a limit on how/which bundles can count towards the Billboard 200 is exactly because of things like this: artists exploiting every/any avenue to boost their physical sale units to gain as high a debut week as possible, especially with pure sales now being a thing of the past. You call it out for what it is and some people get their panties in a wad. I understand what you meant thegreatdivine. Don't worry. You stated nothing but facts! The other Girls can stay thinking we're "delusional" though... Hopefully they're putting this energy into streaming "Lover" so that it hits the target they're all praying for, this week and next.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 16:05:19 GMT -5
kimberly I agree with you that she could be doing a lot more than she's doing now. I also stated that none of what she's doing is a crime or uncommon industry tactic. All I said was that she does it all the time. Was I wrong in that assessment? I'll give it to her for finding newer, more creative ways to encourage her fanbase to buy all these things and support in so many different ways. However, there's a reason why Billboard is currently looking for a way to put a limit on what bundles can count towards the Billboard 200. If they don't do that, more and more artists will look for more and more ridiculous ways to boost their debut week figures. Take DJ Khaled and his energy drink bundles that no one knew about for example.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 25, 2019 16:27:16 GMT -5
kimberly I agree with you that she could be doing a lot more than she's doing now. I also stated that none of what she's doing is a crime or uncommon industry tactic. All I said was that she does it all the time. Was I wrong in that assessment? I'll give it to her for finding newer, more creative ways to encourage her fanbase to buy all these things and support in so many different ways. However, there's a reason why Billboard is currently looking for a way to put a limit on what bundles can count towards the Billboard 200. If they don't do that, more and more artists will look for more and more ridiculous ways to boost their debut week figures. Take DJ Khaled and his energy drink bundles that no one knew about for example. You're not wrong, she definitely did a lot with ME! to get that 1-week number one. However, I think saying she's pulling all the tricks, even if you didn't intend to sound mean, feels like a new way people call her "calculated." YES, Taylor Swift is the most calculated artist, but why is that negative? She knows how to play the game, she's business savvy, she's one of the only artists that continue to sell as many Albus as she does, and I have tons of respect for that. Would it be better for her to have messy ANTI/Queen style rollouts? I think Taylor's case is much different from DJ Khaled, because his drinks or whatever they are, they are not music related at all. It would be like an artist getting a Whole Foods or a gas station deal and giving away the album to all customers, who were there not to buy the album/DJ Khaled merch but for daily necessities. Taylor's ways still ensure people are buying it because it is Taylor and it is Lover. All that said, I would like to note that I am NOT a TS stan, but I do think people often bash her just to bash her. If she were a white man in hip hop she would be getting called the GOAT and a legend and all by this point. She'd be quite "The Man".
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 25, 2019 16:34:51 GMT -5
Taylors bundles list includes: t-shirts, hoodies, keychains, mugs, stickers, rings, pins, hats and iphone cases
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Aug 25, 2019 16:41:48 GMT -5
Taylors bundles list includes: t-shirts, hoodies, keychains, mugs, stickers, rings, pins, hats and iphone cases And none of those were included in the 450k she sold in ONE day, outselling everyone else's entire debut weeks.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 25, 2019 16:43:21 GMT -5
How so?
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Aug 25, 2019 16:46:52 GMT -5
Read the billboard article. Merch redeemable albums were not included in the 450k figure. I'm really starting to think all artist are delusional and are pulling "every trick in the book". Every big artist has merch, has pre-orders, gives interviews when the album drops... Drake even had his f**king face stamped on EVERY SINGLE PLAYLIST on Spotify. I wish Taylor was pulling "every trick in the book", some people really don't know what they are talking about. But whatever helps you sleep at night
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Aug 25, 2019 16:48:10 GMT -5
Read the billboard article. Merch redeemable albums were not included in the 450k figure. I'm really starting to think all artist are delusional and are pulling "every trick in the book". Every big artist has merch, has pre-orders, gives interviews when the album drops... Drake even had his f**king face stamped on EVERY SINGLE PLAYLIST on Spotify. I wish Taylor was pulling "every trick in the book", some people really don't know what they talk about. Where does it say that?- it says "According to initial sales reports to Nielsen Music, the set sold around 450,000 copies on its first day of release (Aug. 23) — buoyed by strong pre-order sales." For example -- When you buy a package of stickers on her website for 13 dollars and the order includes a standard digital album delivered to your email on release day - why is that not a pre-order? Same question for all the other items that come with an album download? Why I posted this - none of those bundle items are music related -- not that it is bad - very creative marketing
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Aug 25, 2019 16:48:21 GMT -5
Why is there a discussion about her album sales in the hot 100 thread?
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Post by thegreatdivine on Aug 25, 2019 16:54:07 GMT -5
kimberly didn't Taylor once have a deal with Papa John's for her Red album? What did that have to do with the music?
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deepston
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Post by deepston on Aug 25, 2019 16:55:11 GMT -5
Read the billboard article. Merch redeemable albums were not included in the 450k figure. I'm really starting to think all artist are delusional and are pulling "every trick in the book". Every big artist has merch, has pre-orders, gives interviews when the album drops... Drake even had his f**king face stamped on EVERY SINGLE PLAYLIST on Spotify. I wish Taylor was pulling "every trick in the book", some people really don't know what they talk about. Where does it say that? For example -- When you buy a package of stickers on her website for 13 dollars and the order includes a standard digital album delivered to your email on release day - why is that not a pre-order? Same question for all the other items that come with an album download? Sorry, I was reading in between the lines. What they say was this: But I did see somewhere that the merch albums were not included in this figure because Republic is responsible for reporting it to Nielsen at the end of the tracking week. The Nielsen estimation only takes into account what they can predict and that's digital+physical sales. Does anyone has more information about this matter and can confirm/deny it? Furthermore, you need to redeem the code that comes with the merch. A sold item does not automatically count towards the album charts as 1 sale. That's why this isn't the same as a pre-order obviously.
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