K Newman
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Post by K Newman on Mar 4, 2008 22:53:17 GMT -5
I think for what Mariah HAS achieved, it has been pretty massive for her. So in looking only at the things that she's achieved and succeeded at in her career then yeah, she's huge. But in looking at the bigger picture, it's not really a *lot*. I'm not trying to diminish her achievements but in the broad scale of what a performer/singer/etc (person in the music industry) can achieve, Mariah hasn't covered a lot of that scale. But she's mastered the sections that she's covered, ie. singing and chart success. Well singing and chart sucess is pretty much it. What she hasn't achieved is cultural significance and songs that can be considered the anthem to an era or period. I feel the younger generation relates to her more because everyone knows Mariah Carey songs. This generation just isn't recognized as being credible. Lets put it this way. 50 years from now, Mariah will be remembered for her chart success nad for "All I Want For Xmas". But then how much do people really care about the charts. The Beatles have the most #1s in history, but watch any documentary of them, movie, articles, books and thats not the focus. Chart success is like the last thing thats mentioned. Madonna is the biggest selling female artist, but when people talk about her its her cultural impact that gets mentioned, her politacal, religous cultural statements. Not record sales and #1s. Thats really all Mariah Carey has going for her legacy (as well as the christmas song). I'm sure Mariah is fine with this, but like I said, for someone of her success and talent, I think her legacy should be more than that. And its not. And for the person that said Mariah is more respected than Whitney, that is false. I don't know what made you say that. Whitney gets standing ovations wherever she goes. Enough said. And people lost respect for her PERSONAL LIFE, but her talent and legacy is cemented and respected.
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Arson
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Post by Arson on Mar 5, 2008 0:55:28 GMT -5
I tend to like most of the songs Mariah Carey has out, like the one out right now, but I agree that most of them sound very alike. Her rap/hip-hop collaborations are all very similar, and so are her ballads. The good part of that is the quality is quite consistently solid. But on the other hand, songs blend into one another and they become less memorable.
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Mar 5, 2008 3:57:18 GMT -5
I tend to like most of the songs Mariah Carey has out, like the one out right now, but I agree that most of them sound very alike. Her rap/hip-hop collaborations are all very similar, and so are her ballads. The good part of that is the quality is quite consistently solid. But on the other hand, songs blend into one another and they become less memorable. agreed 100% ;)
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Post by die Lotterie on Mar 9, 2008 23:23:14 GMT -5
The prob. though is that Whitney has lost it (prob. since the Bodyguard days)...really don't think she has much "respect" nowadays, but she def. did from about 1985-1993 - after that seems like it was all downhill for her In other words, if you polled Americans today, I'm pretty sure Mariah would score much higher on the "respect" scale than Whitney (but can't prove it lol) Whitney has great rsepect from the grammies winning ROTY and AOTY what mariah never could pull off with her being nominated many times,also whitney is also respected for her acting which we know mimi was not really successful at doing. The Grammys aren't really a fair measurement. The Grammys are very biased towards certain artists. Also, it's not the general public voting for these things. For the most part, the people who vote for the awards are deeply rooted in the music industry. It's very political.
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Mic Technique
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Post by Mic Technique on Mar 10, 2008 0:38:03 GMT -5
And she was not the first singer to put a rapper on her song but the first to make it very popular and mainstream and she was a pop-balladeer putting a rapper on her song. She made hip-hop cross over into pop and many hip-hop historians credit her with that. So it's her fault then. Although J Lo is who made it annoying as hell. LMAO.
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4 Minutes to be a Legend
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Post by 4 Minutes to be a Legend on Mar 10, 2008 1:59:06 GMT -5
I agree with whoever said that Mariah's fan base is prominently women in their teens/20s. Whoever was a 90s child loves Mariah and i already know that. I can ask any 22 year old female who their favorite singer is and i'm more than willing to bet most of them would say Mariah Carey. She has an amazing appeal in that category. But why hasn't she crossed over to the older demographics? The above 30 crowd? Whitney has already done this. Celine is mastering it. Madonna also embraced it. But Mariah is still limiting herself to a certain crowd. Also for a Diva, she doesn't have as many gay fans as Madonna or Britney. OF COURSE she has gay fans (LOL name me a diva that doesn't!), but for some reason the gay community embraces Madonna, Britney, and Christina more than they do Mariah. It's because once again...it's that Julia Roberts movie effect that Mariah seems to have on her audience. She limits herself and has become this 'chick flick'.
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nitro
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Post by nitro on Mar 10, 2008 16:50:10 GMT -5
Don't know if you've been to any of her concerts, but d see she has one of the most varied demographics. After seeing Celine, Mariah, Janet, Kelly Clarkson, Cher, Madonna and Beyonce in concert, I'd say Mariah's fan base is the most diverse. Yes, a core group of it are teenage girls (which is a VERY desirable demographic), but her fan base is huge. Straight and gay, old and young, and racially diverse.
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Mic Technique
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Post by Mic Technique on Mar 10, 2008 18:12:00 GMT -5
Mariah probably has the most diverse fanbase. And yes, perfect eveidence of this is retrievable if you were to attend one of her concerts.
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4 Minutes to be a Legend
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Post by 4 Minutes to be a Legend on Mar 12, 2008 1:52:03 GMT -5
I did attend one of her concerts...and in fact there was a gay couple making out in the seat in front of me.
But that's not my point. My point is, I've also attended Madonna and Christina concerts where i also witnessed gay couples, so it's nothing new.
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Carlitoz
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Post by Carlitoz on Mar 12, 2008 21:35:56 GMT -5
The problem with Mariah is that she doesn't seem to have any strong opinions about anything relevant. And if she ever had one, it must be buried in some obscure magazine's article. She's just too light to be a legend or to create big classics.
Yeah, she's done a lot of great pop songs, got those #1s, sold those albums, has a good voice, etc, etc, but that's it. I mean, that's not a little achievement... it is GREAT! but that's it. That doesn't make you a legend or a pop culture phenomenon. You're just another good and very popular singer, period. Without something relevant to say, without an amazing stage presence, without imposing a fashion, incredible lyrics, smart lyrics or without extremely good songs, you just don't take that step forward to be a legend.
And yes, lambs, don't get offended. I do know Mariah is very talented, she's had tons of hits, etc. I'm not denying that. Don't give me the lines "but she's sold millions" or "oh, but she writes and sings" which is getting very very old. The fact that you write doesn't mean that you're great at it. Of course she must have been good to have created all those hits, but she's not a Lennon or McCartney or Dylan or Joni Mitchell. Remember, hits are also songs like "Laffy Taffy" or "Ice Ice Baby" so.... a #1 hit or many of them or a 10 million selling album does not mean you're a great songwriter or are doing quality music. And NO, Mariah is not bad like that. I'm just giving you examples that millions sold is not the measure here. I do recognize how Mariah has influenced so many female artists from Christina to many other ones and new ones you see on American Idol. BUT the problem is that even with that influence and all those hits... she is still not seen as a standing-ovation legend. After 18 years, you would think she would be one by now, right? And there are no REALLY MASSIVE CLASSIC songs of hers. Why? I don't know. Maybe her songs are a bit forgettable, but not completely for sure. They're huge, but once they're off the chart, they're really GONE most of the time.
So going back to the original question. I would say her songs are a bit forgettable. Not completely though. I still enjoy it so much when I hear her 90s songs on the radio, but for some reason they don't have that massive recognition of being a classic even though that's unfair sometimes. I'm thinking maybe because all her songs, even though they're very nice (not all of them!), they are just TOO TOO light, as light as what she has to say and as light as her stage personality. Her singer persona is too vanilla to me. And I say "singer persona" or "stage persona" only because we all know she's a very strong and determined woman in actuality. That is a great example to her fans and other singers in general, how to be strong and overcome crisis. Her singing style, even though not everybody likes it, has been imitated by so many young girls for many years already. But you cannot spend your whole singing career with sweet love songs, or songs about fantasy and fairies and rainbows, and how you can be strong... recycled again and again. You need variety and deeper and better writing to be remembered.
As I've said before years ago, listening to Mariah is many times like drinking a nice and refreshing glass of pink lemonade. You drink it, it refreshes you and that's it. The lemonade could've been made by Kool-Aid or any other supermarket brand. She'll be a legend and her songs won't be forgettable when listening to her music is like drinking a fine rich glass of wine. Right now she's simply an experience that is just too "watery" most of the time. Just look at her last single. Yeah, it sticks in your mind, it's on its way to #1 and then again it is a song that 10 years from today or even 5 years people won't be saying "Wow, "Touch My Body"! Such a classic! What a song!" I don't think so. It's just what I said... a pink lemonade song. And that's exactly what makes many of her songs forgettable.
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4 Minutes to be a Legend
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Post by 4 Minutes to be a Legend on Mar 14, 2008 1:36:53 GMT -5
The problem with Mariah is that she doesn't seem to have any strong opinions about anything relevant. And if she ever had one, it must be buried in some obscure magazine's article. She's just too light to be a legend or to create big classics. Yeah, she's done a lot of great pop songs, got those #1s, sold those albums, has a good voice, etc, etc, but that's it. I mean, that's not a little achievement... it is GREAT! but that's it. That doesn't make you a legend or a pop culture phenomenon. You're just another good and very popular singer, period. Without something relevant to say, without an amazing stage presence, without imposing a fashion, incredible lyrics, smart lyrics or without extremely good songs, you just don't take that step forward to be a legend. And yes, lambs, don't get offended. I do know Mariah is very talented, she's had tons of hits, etc. I'm not denying that. Don't give me the lines "but she's sold millions" or "oh, but she writes and sings" which is getting very very old. The fact that you write doesn't mean that you're great at it. Of course she must have been good to have created all those hits, but she's not a Lennon or McCartney or Dylan or Joni Mitchell. Remember, hits are also songs like "Laffy Taffy" or "Ice Ice Baby" so.... a #1 hit or many of them or a 10 million selling album does not mean you're a great songwriter or are doing quality music. And NO, Mariah is not bad like that. I'm just giving you examples that millions sold is not the measure here. I do recognize how Mariah has influenced so many female artists from Christina to many other ones and new ones you see on American Idol. BUT the problem is that even with that influence and all those hits... she is still not seen as a standing-ovation legend. After 18 years, you would think she would be one by now, right? And there are no REALLY MASSIVE CLASSIC songs of hers. Why? I don't know. Maybe her songs are a bit forgettable, but not completely for sure. They're huge, but once they're off the chart, they're really GONE most of the time. So going back to the original question. I would say her songs are a bit forgettable. Not completely though. I still enjoy it so much when I hear her 90s songs on the radio, but for some reason they don't have that massive recognition of being a classic even though that's unfair sometimes. I'm thinking maybe because all her songs, even though they're very nice (not all of them!), they are just TOO TOO light, as light as what she has to say and as light as her stage personality. Her singer persona is too vanilla to me. And I say "singer persona" or "stage persona" only because we all know she's a very strong and determined woman in actuality. That is a great example to her fans and other singers in generals, how to be strong and overcome crisis. Her singing style, even though not everybody likes it, has been imitated by so many young girls for many years already. But you cannot spend your whole singing career with sweet love songs, or songs about fantasy and fairies and rainbows, and how you can be strong... recycled again and again. You need variety and deeper and better writing to be remembered. As I've said before years ago, listening to Mariah is many times like drinking a nice and refreshing glass of pink lemonade. You drink it, it refreshes you and that's it. The lemonade could've been made by Kool-Aid or any other supermarket brand. She'll be a legend and her songs won't be forgettable when listening to her music is like drinking a fine rich glass of wine. Right now she's simply an experience that is just too "watery" most of the time. Just look at her last single. Yeah, it sticks in your mind, it's on its way to #1 and then again it is a song that 10 years from today or even 5 years people won't be saying "Wow, "Touch My Body"! Such a classic! What a song!" I don't think so. It's just what I said... a pink lemonade song. And that's exactly what makes many of her songs forgettable. STANDING OVATION! JUST WOW! You really hit the spot right on the dot. I seriously couldn't have said it better myself because that's EXACTLY what i think. I'm saving you're quote for future references.
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K Newman
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Post by K Newman on Mar 14, 2008 10:25:04 GMT -5
Wow are you like a music critic or something? That was spot on. Everything about that is the truth. It sounds like something a respected music critic would say. The lemonade analogy is spot on!
It seems the most possible reason is her lack of stage persona. I agree with that competely. There is nothing about her that people can identify with and remember years later. She lacks stage presence and an identity and that causes her songs to also lack an indentity that people can remeber. If you can't perform live, thats fine. Find another way for people to remeber you, such as writing a culturally significant song, but she doesn't do that either. I do hope she will someday, I would like to see get that respect. But I won't hold my breath.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Mar 14, 2008 13:18:10 GMT -5
Whitney has great rsepect from the grammies winning ROTY and AOTY what mariah never could pull off with her being nominated many times,also whitney is also respected for her acting which we know mimi was not really successful at doing. The Grammys aren't really a fair measurement. The Grammys are very biased towards certain artists. Also, it's not the general public voting for these things. For the most part, the people who vote for the awards are deeply rooted in the music industry. It's very political. Very true.
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Tea-why
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Post by Tea-why on Mar 26, 2008 9:25:34 GMT -5
I think determining whether a song is memorable or not should be a personal thing. To me, she has tons of of memorable songs, because I remember them and they mean something to me. For other people it may be the opposite.
And radio may not play a certain song, but people might be listening to that song on CD, i-pod etc. everyday, so would that song still be considered 'forgettable'?
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Post by staythenight on Mar 26, 2008 9:54:41 GMT -5
What id like to forget is all the useless Mariah threads all over the place...whats next did Mariah Carey change her panties this morning?........ why dont we create polls & opinions sections on the OTHER MILLION ARTISTS OUT THERE!!
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Nevermind
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Post by Nevermind on Mar 26, 2008 10:12:01 GMT -5
The problem with Mariah is that she doesn't seem to have any strong opinions about anything relevant. And if she ever had one, it must be buried in some obscure magazine's article. She's just too light to be a legend or to create big classics. Yeah, she's done a lot of great pop songs, got those #1s, sold those albums, has a good voice, etc, etc, but that's it. I mean, that's not a little achievement... it is GREAT! but that's it. That doesn't make you a legend or a pop culture phenomenon. You're just another good and very popular singer, period. Without something relevant to say, without an amazing stage presence, without imposing a fashion, incredible lyrics, smart lyrics or without extremely good songs, you just don't take that step forward to be a legend. And yes, lambs, don't get offended. I do know Mariah is very talented, she's had tons of hits, etc. I'm not denying that. Don't give me the lines "but she's sold millions" or "oh, but she writes and sings" which is getting very very old. The fact that you write doesn't mean that you're great at it. Of course she must have been good to have created all those hits, but she's not a Lennon or McCartney or Dylan or Joni Mitchell. Remember, hits are also songs like "Laffy Taffy" or "Ice Ice Baby" so.... a #1 hit or many of them or a 10 million selling album does not mean you're a great songwriter or are doing quality music. And NO, Mariah is not bad like that. I'm just giving you examples that millions sold is not the measure here. I do recognize how Mariah has influenced so many female artists from Christina to many other ones and new ones you see on American Idol. BUT the problem is that even with that influence and all those hits... she is still not seen as a standing-ovation legend. After 18 years, you would think she would be one by now, right? And there are no REALLY MASSIVE CLASSIC songs of hers. Why? I don't know. Maybe her songs are a bit forgettable, but not completely for sure. They're huge, but once they're off the chart, they're really GONE most of the time. So going back to the original question. I would say her songs are a bit forgettable. Not completely though. I still enjoy it so much when I hear her 90s songs on the radio, but for some reason they don't have that massive recognition of being a classic even though that's unfair sometimes. I'm thinking maybe because all her songs, even though they're very nice (not all of them!), they are just TOO TOO light, as light as what she has to say and as light as her stage personality. Her singer persona is too vanilla to me. And I say "singer persona" or "stage persona" only because we all know she's a very strong and determined woman in actuality. That is a great example to her fans and other singers in general, how to be strong and overcome crisis. Her singing style, even though not everybody likes it, has been imitated by so many young girls for many years already. But you cannot spend your whole singing career with sweet love songs, or songs about fantasy and fairies and rainbows, and how you can be strong... recycled again and again. You need variety and deeper and better writing to be remembered. As I've said before years ago, listening to Mariah is many times like drinking a nice and refreshing glass of pink lemonade. You drink it, it refreshes you and that's it. The lemonade could've been made by Kool-Aid or any other supermarket brand. She'll be a legend and her songs won't be forgettable when listening to her music is like drinking a fine rich glass of wine. Right now she's simply an experience that is just too "watery" most of the time. Just look at her last single. Yeah, it sticks in your mind, it's on its way to #1 and then again it is a song that 10 years from today or even 5 years people won't be saying "Wow, "Touch My Body"! Such a classic! What a song!" I don't think so. It's just what I said... a pink lemonade song. And that's exactly what makes many of her songs forgettable. Wow, one of the best posts I've read all year. That answer is absolutely spot on. A perfect answer, I agree with everything you've said.
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Post by infamous86m on Mar 30, 2008 1:31:49 GMT -5
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jazzyskye10²
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Post by jazzyskye10² on Mar 31, 2008 14:13:06 GMT -5
^^^ Thanks! That was a fun listen. :)
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Flavoured
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Post by Flavoured on Apr 16, 2008 16:39:58 GMT -5
Do you not think though the reason her songs are forgettable may be because she has such a huge collection of hits.
Also the fact that she really hasn't stopped and taken breaks between albums is another reason why. In the 90's she went from album to album to song to song. Her songs have had no real time to "sink in".
Just my opinion.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 17, 2008 9:14:29 GMT -5
In the 90's she went from album to album to song to song. Her songs have had no real time to "sink in". Only thing is she had a really rough time from the end of 1997-2005 (no Top 10 CHR hits) when IMO her previous hits would've had plenty of time to sink in
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tyrone25
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Post by tyrone25 on Apr 18, 2008 6:04:48 GMT -5
Do you not think though the reason her songs are forgettable may be because she has such a huge collection of hits. Also the fact that she really hasn't stopped and taken breaks between albums is another reason why. In the 90's she went from album to album to song to song. Her songs have had no real time to "sink in". Just my opinion. No Madonna has more hits and puts album after album out and yet her songs are better remembered. I think it's because Mariah's catalogue is not diverse, all her songs just get mixed up Yes her new album will see millions in her market, the US but it's a collection of songs that nobody will remember - no great moments, no amazing or innovative vocals and no lyrics that mean anything to anyone over 21. She could have taken a chance coming off a hugely successful album like Mimi, but she didn't, she doesn't have the balls to do it, which is why her songs just don't matter
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danny
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Post by danny on Apr 18, 2008 8:32:50 GMT -5
memorable is a very subjective topic.. I am sure that Most people at least know quite well and consider Hero, All I Want For Christmas and We Belong Together to be big hits, and every other person who has an interest of sorts for Mariah's music would find various other songs memorable.
Personally, *from my perspective*, I could say that neither "The Beatles" nor "Madonna" have many memorable songs to me. I could probably name 3 Madonna #1 singles out of however many, and to be honest I'm not even sure if they are number ones, They could be because I remember them, who knows, and they would be Like a Prayer, Like a Virgin and Music.
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Post by derek on Apr 19, 2008 2:20:34 GMT -5
I think the reason why Mariah's songs would be considered.....unmemorable is becuase they are all the same...and to add on to it, she has REMAINED the same with both music and style for the passed 12 years. I'm no HUGE Mariah fan, but I'd say that the 17 #1's really aren't that signifigant if they really aren't played anymore as opposed to some of Madonna's minor hits becoming CLASSICS..
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Nevermind
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Post by Nevermind on Apr 19, 2008 7:51:47 GMT -5
memorable is a very subjective topic.. I am sure that Most people at least know quite well and consider Hero, All I Want For Christmas and We Belong Together to be big hits, and every other person who has an interest of sorts for Mariah's music would find various other songs memorable. Personally, *from my perspective*, I could say that neither "The Beatles" nor "Madonna" have many memorable songs to me. I could probably name 3 Madonna #1 singles out of however many, and to be honest I'm not even sure if they are number ones, They could be because I remember them, who knows, and they would be Like a Prayer, Like a Virgin and Music. I think Mariah has 4 memorable hits: Vision of Love, Hero, All I Want For Christmas Is You, and We Belong Together. Thats it really. Madonna has a lot more, people remember Holiday, Like A Virgin, Material Girl, Like A Prayer, Vogue, Take A Bow, Ray Of Light and Music. And worldwide definitely Hung Up as well.
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Post by fab90 on Apr 19, 2008 8:25:11 GMT -5
Interesting the comment about American Idol/Idol like shows worldwide. I could name loads of Whitney/Celine/Xtina etc songs being sung on these shows. I am struggling to recall any performances of Mariah numbers except for "Without you", which, as already pointed out, is not a Mariah song. Mariah songs are banned on American Idol. ;)
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 19, 2008 10:10:47 GMT -5
Madonna has a lot more, people remember Holiday, Like A Virgin, Material Girl, Like A Prayer, Vogue, Take A Bow, Ray Of Light and Music. And worldwide definitely Hung Up as well. Def. add to that Borderline, Crazy For You, and Open Your Heart
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 19, 2008 10:11:18 GMT -5
Interesting the comment about American Idol/Idol like shows worldwide. I could name loads of Whitney/Celine/Xtina etc songs being sung on these shows. I am struggling to recall any performances of Mariah numbers except for "Without you", which, as already pointed out, is not a Mariah song. Mariah songs are banned on American Idol. ;) Why's that (just curious...)
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Post by fab90 on Apr 19, 2008 10:56:12 GMT -5
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 19, 2008 11:59:17 GMT -5
^Oh lol songs by lots of artists are banned...btw did people really come on AI and sing songs by Korn haha? (Only seen it a few times)
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K Newman
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Post by K Newman on Apr 19, 2008 20:52:57 GMT -5
I think Mariah has 4 memorable hits: Vision of Love, Hero, All I Want For Christmas Is You, and We Belong Together. Thats it really. I don't think "Vision of Love" is a classic. Its a great song, one of her best and most distinct, but I doubt the average joe would remember it unfortunately. But I agree with the other 3 mentioned.
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