what
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Post by what on Nov 17, 2008 21:58:44 GMT -5
She's one of the most successful artists (male/female/group/duo) in the Country industry, but she has the same number of CMA trophies as... Andy Griffith. (I don't mean to take anything away from Andy by saying that. IMO, that Video trophy was deserved.) in that case, ill go with quality over quantity. shania's only win is THE award. the award that a lot of people covet, but very very few only ever win. even though they have the same number, i highly doubt the industry will equate andy's video win to shanias eoty win. like you, no offense to andy, but theyre just not the same.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2008 22:52:44 GMT -5
However, if it's written in the eligibility rules that Sales, Touring, Singles success, and Media Exposure count for an award (or awards) like some CMA rules state, the leader in all of those areas should at least get Nominated for those awards and win the awards that he/she qualifies for. Do some CMA rules explicitly note the importance of sales and singles success? I haven't seen it in the Female Vocalist of the Year criteria, for example. I know the ACM rules do lay out some minimum thresholds for commercial success to determine eligibility. But I haven't seen much indicating what the CMA's criteria for voting are. The only thing I've seen from the CMA on FVotY is from this 2001 press release, and it suggests that the quality of individual musical performance is intended to be paramount:And here is Calvin Gilbert of CMT.com quoting the criteria for Entertainer of the Year:Once again, the criteria emphasizes skill, not commercial success. I've done some additional research. In my previous post, I cited commercial success and chart success among the factors of the CMA voting. Just seconds ago (or 'minutes ago' by the time I finish this post) I found a direct link to the supposed CMA criteria for each award. (Here is the link.)[I also found a link which describes the actual CMA voting process. That link is HERE and the info. is on the Left side of the page.] I did mix up the ACM criteria for awards with the CMA's criteria. That's my mistake and I apologize. It's a foolish error on my part. However, even after reading the CMA's criteria for EOTY, Female Vocalist, Album of the Year, Video of the Year, etc....my point regarding Shania and others remains the same. It's clear that voters are not following the criteria/qualifications for those awards, especially in the EOTY category. As I said, vocal ability is always subjective, but facts are facts. Based on the rules I've read, Shania clearly qualified for the EOTY win during her "Up!" era for her tour. She wasn't even nominated. Not to mention that the EOTY criteria has been met by Toby Keith and others who didn't even get nominated by the CMA. The same goes for the FV category and other categories. The rules are not being fairly applied to all artists and the other factors I mentioned in my previous post do seem to be playing a big part in determining the CMA nominees and winners. When I look at the CMA Database of Nominees and Winners, my feelings about the CMA voting become even stronger.
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mbgriffith1
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Post by mbgriffith1 on Nov 17, 2008 23:32:17 GMT -5
A very short rant about the "Horizon" Award: here's the last 14 years: 1990 - Garth Brooks 1991 - Travis Tritt 1992 - Suzy Bogguss 1993 - Mark Chesnut 1994 - John Michael Montgomery 1995 - Alison Krauss 1996 - Bryan White 1997 - LeAnn Rimes 1998 - Dixie Chicks 1999 - Jo Dee Messina 2000 - Brad Paisley On this list, only two artists have had a top 10 hit on country radio this year. And, only two have put albums in the top albums on the top of the chart this year. How embarrassing! I understand your logic, but it seems to me that that's a pretty impressive list, sans Suzy Bogguss. Whoa...... hold up here. "Sans Suzy Bogguss"? I'm not going to stand for that. Sure, Suzy didn't go on to sell a ton of records, but a lot of people think she was one of the most talented vocalists of the 1990's. Just because she's not drop dead gorgeous like Shania Twain and just because she didn't sing catchy pop tunes that appealed to a wider audience does not mean she isn't deserving of a Horizon Award. Suzy built a very respectable record of CD's and singles that consistent went Gold or Platinum and hit the Top 10 on radio - and her career only flatlined after she took several years off to start a family. I don't think the definition of "Horizon Award" is simply "For the artist that we think will sell the most CD's in the next 10 to 20 years." If it is, then sure, Suzy shouldn't have won. If the Award is about recognizing a fresh new talent on the country music scene, then Suzy was more than deserving. I suggest you go listen to classics like "Hey Cinderella," "Just Like The Weather," "Outbound Plane," "Drive South," "Letting Go," and "Someday Soon" before you go insulting Suzy Bogguss again. Ok, rant over...... And for me, the CMA's lost all credibility the day that Rascal Flatts won their first award - when is that train wreck ever going to be put out of their misery?
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Lee
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Joined: September 2004
Posts: 1,150
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Post by Lee on Nov 18, 2008 0:37:12 GMT -5
I understand your logic, but it seems to me that that's a pretty impressive list, sans Suzy Bogguss. Whoa...... hold up here. "Sans Suzy Bogguss"? I'm not going to stand for that. Sure, Suzy didn't go on to sell a ton of records, but a lot of people think she was one of the most talented vocalists of the 1990's. Just because she's not drop dead gorgeous like Shania Twain and just because she didn't sing catchy pop tunes that appealed to a wider audience does not mean she isn't deserving of a Horizon Award. Suzy built a very respectable record of CD's and singles that consistent went Gold or Platinum and hit the Top 10 on radio - and her career only flatlined after she took several years off to start a family. I don't think the definition of "Horizon Award" is simply "For the artist that we think will sell the most CD's in the next 10 to 20 years." If it is, then sure, Suzy shouldn't have won. If the Award is about recognizing a fresh new talent on the country music scene, then Suzy was more than deserving. I suggest you go listen to classics like "Hey Cinderella," "Just Like The Weather," "Outbound Plane," "Drive South," "Letting Go," and "Someday Soon" before you go insulting Suzy Bogguss again. Ok, rant over...... And for me, the CMA's lost all credibility the day that Rascal Flatts won their first award - when is that train wreck ever going to be put out of their misery? You forgot to mention the great tracks Aces, Somewhere between, and Hopelessly Yours (w/ Lee Greenwood). I agree Suzy was deserving. Ofcourse award shows are not going to please everyone. There is no perfect criteria for deciding who should win the awards. You can't be mad because an artist does not win an award from the CMA (COUNTRY MUSIC ASSOCIATION). The members of the group have the right to vote for whoever they want.
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kw9461
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Joined: January 2007
Posts: 3,764
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Post by kw9461 on Nov 18, 2008 0:53:22 GMT -5
Whoa...... hold up here. "Sans Suzy Bogguss"? I'm not going to stand for that. Sure, Suzy didn't go on to sell a ton of records, but a lot of people think she was one of the most talented vocalists of the 1990's. Just because she's not drop dead gorgeous like Shania Twain and just because she didn't sing catchy pop tunes that appealed to a wider audience does not mean she isn't deserving of a Horizon Award. Suzy built a very respectable record of CD's and singles that consistent went Gold or Platinum and hit the Top 10 on radio - and her career only flatlined after she took several years off to start a family. I don't think the definition of "Horizon Award" is simply "For the artist that we think will sell the most CD's in the next 10 to 20 years." If it is, then sure, Suzy shouldn't have won. If the Award is about recognizing a fresh new talent on the country music scene, then Suzy was more than deserving. I suggest you go listen to classics like "Hey Cinderella," "Just Like The Weather," "Outbound Plane," "Drive South," "Letting Go," and "Someday Soon" before you go insulting Suzy Bogguss again. Ok, rant over...... Easy there, I never said that Suzy wasn't qualified or anything. I was simply stating the sizable successes that the other winners went on to have. Regardless of talent, Suzy didn't share in that same success. She had a nice 3 year run where she was successful, and did have one platinum record, but compared to other winners she didn't go on to have much success. I wasn't trying to insult her, I was simply stating a fact that excluding her, the other winners all went on to have impressive careers. Btw, I've heard many of the songs that you mention (Hey Cinderella is a fave of mine, as is her rendition of the Eagles "Take It To The Limit") and I agree, she was very good, but that irrelevant to the point I was making.
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mbgriffith1
New Member
Joined: February 2005
Posts: 117
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Post by mbgriffith1 on Nov 18, 2008 9:20:39 GMT -5
Whoa...... hold up here. "Sans Suzy Bogguss"? I'm not going to stand for that. Sure, Suzy didn't go on to sell a ton of records, but a lot of people think she was one of the most talented vocalists of the 1990's. Just because she's not drop dead gorgeous like Shania Twain and just because she didn't sing catchy pop tunes that appealed to a wider audience does not mean she isn't deserving of a Horizon Award. Suzy built a very respectable record of CD's and singles that consistent went Gold or Platinum and hit the Top 10 on radio - and her career only flatlined after she took several years off to start a family. I don't think the definition of "Horizon Award" is simply "For the artist that we think will sell the most CD's in the next 10 to 20 years." If it is, then sure, Suzy shouldn't have won. If the Award is about recognizing a fresh new talent on the country music scene, then Suzy was more than deserving. I suggest you go listen to classics like "Hey Cinderella," "Just Like The Weather," "Outbound Plane," "Drive South," "Letting Go," and "Someday Soon" before you go insulting Suzy Bogguss again. Ok, rant over...... Easy there, I never said that Suzy wasn't qualified or anything. I was simply stating the sizable successes that the other winners went on to have. Regardless of talent, Suzy didn't share in that same success. She had a nice 3 year run where she was successful, and did have one platinum record, but compared to other winners she didn't go on to have much success. I wasn't trying to insult her, I was simply stating a fact that excluding her, the other winners all went on to have impressive careers. Btw, I've heard many of the songs that you mention (Hey Cinderella is a fave of mine, as is her rendition of the Eagles "Take It To The Limit") and I agree, she was very good, but that irrelevant to the point I was making. I *may* have overreacted. I just felt like ranting for a bit... And I wanted to encourage anyone on here who may not be as familiar with Suzy Bogguss to go look her up.
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storm
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Posts: 521
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Post by storm on Nov 18, 2008 18:27:03 GMT -5
Thanks MusicSTFan for that link!
Wow, LeAnn hasn't been nominated for a CMA Award in 11 years. HAHA, come on, that's just funny.
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jenglisbe
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Posts: 34,522
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 18, 2008 21:29:44 GMT -5
Also, where is it stated that the Horizon/New Artist award is about predicting who will sell the most or have the most #1s?
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leilamaurizia
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Post by leilamaurizia on Nov 19, 2008 9:37:30 GMT -5
From the weekly edition of Country Aircheck: Radio Reacts To CMAsMusic fans powered Wednesday’s (11/12) 42nd Annual CMA Awards broadcast to strong ratings, but all viewers are not equal. So we asked several Country radio decision makers for their thoughts on Country’s Biggest Night. WMZQ/Washington & WPOC/Baltimore PD Meg Stevens found the show, “Extremely entertaining. Lots of music with a decent balance between artists who sang hits and those who sang new music. The only errors seemed to be when mics weren’t on – Hillary Scott, Reba and Brad Paisley at the beginning of “Start A Band” all had this happen. Overall, it was a hip, good looking show. Great idea to have Shania present. “I loved Leslie Ponder introducing Carrie Underwood. It was an extremely touching moment. And a huge highlight was what the artists were saying about country music being real and about real people. It goes with all the things we say on air.” Asked if she heard anything that affects programming decisions, Stevens says, “The new Rodney Atkins is a smash! We got calls on it and featured it the day after the show.” KTOM/Monterey PD Wes Poe noticed, “They did a much better job of covering the radio awards than the ACM. And the sound for the most part was right on. One of the better award shows in my opinion. Trace sounded amazing, Kid Rock was a great addition to the show, and the Wailers with Chesney was something special. A good night for the format. I was pretty critical of the ACMs and want to give credit where credit is due: The CMA did a great job.” Not everyone was pleased, however. KATM/Modesto PD Randy Black says the show, “Felt like the ACMs, not the CMAs, which usually have a certain sense of class. This year it felt like CMT took over the broadcast. When a fool like Kid Rock is one of the only people who gets a standing ovation, we as a format seriously have to go, ‘ Who is and why are we doing this to country music?’ The more rock/pop artists infuse themselves into this format, the more trouble we’ll have keeping our format country. I’m soured on the whole direction. The end is near. “Paisley and Carrie did well as emcees,” Black continues. “Brad has taken over for Vince and Carrie will be better and better. Favorite performances: Brooks & Dunn and Strait. Ronnie Dunn is the best in the business. Kellie Pickler was almost naked and on an empty stage, which was very weird.” You’d figure a Nashville cat would be in the Opry House, but WSIX/Nashville PD Keith Kaufman took a year off. “I had the best seat in my house for the show, but only went 7-4 this year,” he says. “My wife Michelle picked eight winners. She’s scheduling music as I type this and will probably take music calls on Thursdays right after Oprah. “I was a bit partial to Brad’s ‘Letter To Me’ for Song. I was fortunate enough to be on Brad’s bus last year when he first played it for [Sony’s] Joe [Galante] and Butch [Waugh]. Tears were shed by at least two of the folks on the bus. I also missed Event. I didn’t see Alison Krauss and Robert Plant do their thing, but I did drive down to Huntsville to see the Sugars, LBT’s and Jake close an incredible show with ‘Life In A Northern Town.’ That was an event! “Another strike was New Artist. I love Lady A and celebrated with them at a show here in town the next night, but thought that award would go to Rodney. Let’s never put the words ‘New’ and ‘Rodney’ in the same category again. He has established himself well beyond that.” And now, Random Thoughts, with Keith Kaufman: “What a delight Carrie was. I didn’t expect her to be that good and I don’t know why. The show is better with hosts. I thought the patriotic tribute with the military wife was going to be a comedy sketch. Boy did I feel bad. The show’s writers should be more open to using material from outside writers. Trust me on this one. The TV audio sucked, but it sounded great on the radio. How long ago did The Wreckers split up? Don’t fall down, Pickler. Don’t fall down, Pickler. Don’t fall down! My ‘I wanna thank’ count – God: two; Joe & Butch: two; Damon Moberly: 1; Program Directors: 1; Country Radio: 7; Fans: 1,000-plus. As it should be.”
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Post by nncountrykid on Nov 19, 2008 12:02:48 GMT -5
Award shows are nothing more than 3 hour commercials for major labels.
End of story.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Nov 19, 2008 22:41:44 GMT -5
Bob Lefsetz, lately a big proponent of country music, had this to say about the CMAs. lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2008/11/15/the-cma-awards/I disagree with several things Lefsetz said, but I find his assertion about Brad Paisley especially odd, because Brad had no part in writing either of the songs that he performed at the CMAs last week.
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Post by kevin59 on Nov 20, 2008 18:29:11 GMT -5
Video of Shania Twain arriving at CMA Awards (No Sound) www.gactv.com/gac/pac_ctnt/text/0,,GAC_26058_71165,00.html?sortby=caption&pn=9&vw_arrange_order=ASC&vw_sort_order=CAPTION&pageref=Photo_Video-955673
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