John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 23, 2005 18:44:54 GMT -5
Complain... lol... I don't think so... the "CHR/Pop" station we have in our market pure and simple isn't a CHR/Pop station...
Others in different markets have similar stories to share... and given the results so far, those that say it's in trouble outnumber those that don't by a 2:1 ratio...
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Dec 23, 2005 18:51:28 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see a comparison of how many RHy songs dominated in 2003 as opposed to this year to see if everyone is as "ignorant" as themax is calling them.... Im too lazy to try to do that
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 23, 2005 19:56:00 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see a comparison of how many RHy songs dominated in 2003 as opposed to this year to see if everyone is as "ignorant" as themax is calling them.... Im too lazy to try to do that If I had the time I would... I LOVE to do research in stuff I'm interested in...
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billme
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Post by billme on Dec 24, 2005 0:31:55 GMT -5
To say there's too much hip-hop/urban/rhythmic is the same as saying there's was too much boys band/teen pop is the same as saying there's too much alternative is the same as too much light rock/AC is the same as saying there's too much hair band rock is the same as saying there's too much disco.
However, the current trend is troubling. All formats are losing audiences with the exception of country. The average TSL (time spent listening) continues to drop. Now, you can debate whether it is the music or the talent delivering the goods. I'm not impressed with the air talent. I do believe music fans will go to satellite over commerical radio (more choice better sound). Plus, on-line stations are numberous. Why listen to local radio? They don't play local music anymore. Why listen to CHR Pop when you can do better programming with an Ipod. Plus, the effect of payola is now resulting in even tighter playlists, if that was even possible. Radio faces some tough challenges in '06 & beyond.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 24, 2005 2:14:32 GMT -5
To say there's too much hip-hop/urban/rhythmic is the same as saying there's was too much boys band/teen pop is the same as saying there's too much alternative is the same as too much light rock/AC is the same as saying there's too much hair band rock is the same as saying there's too much disco. However, the current trend is troubling. All formats are losing audiences with the exception of country. The average TSL (time spent listening) continues to drop. Now, you can debate whether it is the music or the talent delivering the goods. I'm not impressed with the air talent. I do believe music fans will go to satellite over commerical radio (more choice better sound). Plus, on-line stations are numberous. Why listen to local radio? They don't play local music anymore. Why listen to CHR Pop when you can do better programming with an Ipod. Plus, the effect of payola is now resulting in even tighter playlists, if that was even possible. Radio faces some tough challenges in '06 & beyond. Good post.... I'm thinking that the reason every format other than Country is losing listeners is pure and simple... Country is catering to the P18-49 crowd... CHR/Pop and CHR/Urban are catering to the P6-17 crowd and the other formats are somewhere in between...
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Dec 24, 2005 4:21:12 GMT -5
I'm just comparing some weekly top20s on www.popradiotop20.com/ and it seems to me that since 2003 the pop chart hasn't become less rhythmic leaning . This year it was often like 10 rhy/ 10 non-rhy songs . Back in 2003 it was similar .
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kwab
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Post by kwab on Dec 24, 2005 6:05:01 GMT -5
And I can't stand these stations that are basically "rhythmic + Kelly Clarkson". Their whole playlists are basically urban songs, but they say they're pop because they play her. Incidentally, I don't think the format is in trouble. If it is, it's because of the repetition of certain songs and the problems with accepting new music and new artists. Exactly... KIIS doesn't play Nickelback AT ALL!!! ... except for the one time you hear it on the national countdown on the weekends... KIIS and MANY other CHR/Pop stations are essentially CHR/Urban + Kelly Clarkson & Gwen Stefani and the occasional Green Day or Avril Lavigne song... And that's exactly why I've stopped listening to KIIS and started listening to Star 98.7 instead (as well as my usual KBIG & KOST). However, if you think KIIS is getting ridiculous, just look at WKQI of Detroit... My friend was actually JEALOUS of me being able to listen to KIIS and after seeing their year-to-date charts, I can see why... Y.T.D. - WKQI - Detroit (this station literally IS rhythmic + Kelly) 1. Trick Daddy - Sugar - (1693) 2. PCD - Don't Cha (1629) 3. Mariah Carey - We Belong Together - (1562) 4. Gwen Stefani - Hollaback Girl - (1507) 5. 50 Cent - Disco Inferno - (1414) 6. The Game - How We Do (ft. 50 Cent) - (1412) 7. Baby Bash - Baby I'm Back - (1378) 8. Trick Trick - Welcome 2 Detroit (ft. Eminem) - (1346) 9. Frankie J - Obsession - (1315) 10. Rihanna - Pon De Replay - (1237) 11. Black Eyed Peas - Don't Phunk With My Heart - (1234) 12. 50 Cent - Just A Lil' Bit - (1218) 13. Ludacris - Get Back - (1184) 14. Usher - Caught Up - (1160) 15. Kanye West - Gold Digger - (1158) 16. Missy Elliott - Lose Control (ft. Ciara) - (1157) 17. Ciara - Oh (ft. Ludacris) - (1152) 18. 50 Cent - Candy Shop - (1147) 19. Chris Brown - Run It - (1125) 20. Ciara - 1,2 Step (ft. Missy Elliott) - (1122) 21. Natalie - Goin' Crazy - (1079)22. Kelly Clarkson - Behind These Hazel Eyes - (1056)23. Eminem Mockingbird - (1025) 24. Fat Joe - Get It Poppin' (ft. Nelly) - (1022) 25. Black Eyed Peas - My Humps - (1021) 26. Bow Wow - Let Me Hold You (ft. Omarion) - (991) 27. Frankie J - How To Deal - (989) 28. Jay-Z & Linkin Park - Numb/Encore - (987) 29. Mariah Carey - Shake It Off - (985) 30. Alicia Keys - Karma - (972) 31. Will Smith - Switch - (946) 32. Bow Wow - Like You (ft. Ciara) - (916) 33. Young Jeezy - Soul Survivor (ft. Akon) - (913) 34. Pretty Ricky - Your Body - (902) 35. Destiny's Child - Soldier - (883)36. Kelly Clarkson - Since U Been Gone - (882)37. Nelly - Fly Away - (844) 38. Pretty Ricky - Grind With Me - (819) 39. The Game - Hate It Or Love It - (816) 40. Mario - Let Me Love You - (779) 41. Nivea - Okay (738) 42. Trina - Here We Go (ft. Kelly Rowland) - (720) 43. Gwen Stefani - Rich Girl - (698) 44. Ying Yang Twins - Badd - (688) 45. Lil Jon/Eastside Boyz - Lovers & Friends (ft. Usher & Ludacris) - (592) 46. Usher - Yeah (ft. Ludacris & Lil Jon) - (580) 47. Ludacris - Pimpin' All Over The World - (564) 48. Snoop Dogg - Drop It Like It's Hot - (555) 49. Brooke Valentine - Girlfight (ft. Big Boi & Lil Jon) - (555) 50. Lil' Rob - Summer Nights - (536) SUBG is #36... insane. Also nowhere to be found (and almost as ridiculous are Green Day in the Top 50. No Lifehouse, 3 Doors Down, Papa Roach, D.H.T. or anybody else Pop/Rock/etc. that's in their Top 50 for the year. Only Z100 of NY seems to be a great example of what a CHR/Pop station should be (although one *might* argue that they overload on Kelly, but she IS pop). Y.T.D. - Z100 - New York 1. Kelly Clarkson - Behind These Hazel Eyes - (2306) 2. Kelly Clarkson - Since U Been Gone - (2174) 3. Papa Roach - Scars - (1607) 4. The Killers - Mr. Brightside - (1567) 5. Shakira - La Tortura (ft. Alejandro Sanz) - (1506) 6. Green Day - Boulevard Of Broken Dreams - (1501)7. Mariah Carey - We Belong Together - (1494)8. Kelly Clarkson - Because Of You - (1428) 9. The Killers - Somebody Told Me - (1374)10. Rihanna - Pon De Replay - (1265)11. D.H.T. - Listen To Your Heart - (1263)12. Gwen Stefani - Hollaback Girl - (1234) 13. Ciara - 1,2 Step (ft. Missy Elliott) - (1218)14. Lifehouse - You And Me - (1195)15. Frankie J - Obsession - (1185)16. 3 Doors Down - Let Me Go - (1178)17. Black Eyed Peas - Don't Phunk With My Heart - (1172) 18. Pussycat Dolls - Don't Cha - (1135)19. Rob Thomas - Lonely No More - (1121)20. Gwen Stefani - Rich Girl - (1087)
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 24, 2005 10:42:49 GMT -5
Exactly... KIIS doesn't play Nickelback AT ALL!!! ... except for the one time you hear it on the national countdown on the weekends... KIIS and MANY other CHR/Pop stations are essentially CHR/Urban + Kelly Clarkson & Gwen Stefani and the occasional Green Day or Avril Lavigne song... And that's exactly why I've stopped listening to KIIS and started listening to Star 98.7 instead (as well as my usual KBIG & KOST). However, if you think KIIS is getting ridiculous, just look at WKQI of Detroit... My friend was actually JEALOUS of me being able to listen to KIIS and after seeing their year-to-date charts, I can see why... Y.T.D. - WKQI - Detroit (this station literally IS rhythmic + Kelly) 1. Trick Daddy - Sugar - (1693) 2. PCD - Don't Cha (1629) 3. Mariah Carey - We Belong Together - (1562) 4. Gwen Stefani - Hollaback Girl - (1507) 5. 50 Cent - Disco Inferno - (1414) 6. The Game - How We Do (ft. 50 Cent) - (1412) 7. Baby Bash - Baby I'm Back - (1378) 8. Trick Trick - Welcome 2 Detroit (ft. Eminem) - (1346) 9. Frankie J - Obsession - (1315) 10. Rihanna - Pon De Replay - (1237) 11. Black Eyed Peas - Don't Phunk With My Heart - (1234) 12. 50 Cent - Just A Lil' Bit - (1218) 13. Ludacris - Get Back - (1184) 14. Usher - Caught Up - (1160) 15. Kanye West - Gold Digger - (1158) 16. Missy Elliott - Lose Control (ft. Ciara) - (1157) 17. Ciara - Oh (ft. Ludacris) - (1152) 18. 50 Cent - Candy Shop - (1147) 19. Chris Brown - Run It - (1125) 20. Ciara - 1,2 Step (ft. Missy Elliott) - (1122) 21. Natalie - Goin' Crazy - (1079)22. Kelly Clarkson - Behind These Hazel Eyes - (1056)23. Eminem Mockingbird - (1025) 24. Fat Joe - Get It Poppin' (ft. Nelly) - (1022) 25. Black Eyed Peas - My Humps - (1021) 26. Bow Wow - Let Me Hold You (ft. Omarion) - (991) 27. Frankie J - How To Deal - (989) 28. Jay-Z & Linkin Park - Numb/Encore - (987) 29. Mariah Carey - Shake It Off - (985) 30. Alicia Keys - Karma - (972) 31. Will Smith - Switch - (946) 32. Bow Wow - Like You (ft. Ciara) - (916) 33. Young Jeezy - Soul Survivor (ft. Akon) - (913) 34. Pretty Ricky - Your Body - (902) 35. Destiny's Child - Soldier - (883)36. Kelly Clarkson - Since U Been Gone - (882)37. Nelly - Fly Away - (844) 38. Pretty Ricky - Grind With Me - (819) 39. The Game - Hate It Or Love It - (816) 40. Mario - Let Me Love You - (779) 41. Nivea - Okay (738) 42. Trina - Here We Go (ft. Kelly Rowland) - (720) 43. Gwen Stefani - Rich Girl - (698) 44. Ying Yang Twins - Badd - (688) 45. Lil Jon/Eastside Boyz - Lovers & Friends (ft. Usher & Ludacris) - (592) 46. Usher - Yeah (ft. Ludacris & Lil Jon) - (580) 47. Ludacris - Pimpin' All Over The World - (564) 48. Snoop Dogg - Drop It Like It's Hot - (555) 49. Brooke Valentine - Girlfight (ft. Big Boi & Lil Jon) - (555) 50. Lil' Rob - Summer Nights - (536) SUBG is #36... insane. Also nowhere to be found (and almost as ridiculous are Green Day in the Top 50. No Lifehouse, 3 Doors Down, Papa Roach, D.H.T. or anybody else Pop/Rock/etc. that's in their Top 50 for the year. Only Z100 of NY seems to be a great example of what a CHR/Pop station should be (although one *might* argue that they overload on Kelly, but she IS pop). Y.T.D. - Z100 - New York 1. Kelly Clarkson - Behind These Hazel Eyes - (2306) 2. Kelly Clarkson - Since U Been Gone - (2174) 3. Papa Roach - Scars - (1607) 4. The Killers - Mr. Brightside - (1567) 5. Shakira - La Tortura (ft. Alejandro Sanz) - (1506) 6. Green Day - Boulevard Of Broken Dreams - (1501)7. Mariah Carey - We Belong Together - (1494)8. Kelly Clarkson - Because Of You - (1428) 9. The Killers - Somebody Told Me - (1374)10. Rihanna - Pon De Replay - (1265)11. D.H.T. - Listen To Your Heart - (1263)12. Gwen Stefani - Hollaback Girl - (1234) 13. Ciara - 1,2 Step (ft. Missy Elliott) - (1218)14. Lifehouse - You And Me - (1195)15. Frankie J - Obsession - (1185)16. 3 Doors Down - Let Me Go - (1178)17. Black Eyed Peas - Don't Phunk With My Heart - (1172) 18. Pussycat Dolls - Don't Cha - (1135)19. Rob Thomas - Lonely No More - (1121)20. Gwen Stefani - Rich Girl - (1087)That Detroit station is U-G-L-Y! If I remember right though, they've always leaned heavy CHR/Urban ... Z100 is definitely more presentative of what a top 40 station should sound like... it's about balance... as you can see one station has it, 1 doesn't...
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MinusName
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Post by MinusName on Dec 24, 2005 11:48:25 GMT -5
The New York station looks nicely balanced
I completely understand why Country is growing, I myself have been listening to more Country lately because it seems half the time those are the only stations playing listenable music anymore, which is really sad because I'm not a huge Country fan but most of it is pretty good. And if Country is growing, isn't that a sign that maybe Pop should be playing a few more Country songs?! I think the rhythmic/urban trend is going to being dwindling down shortly, because it has been dominating the charts for at least 3 years now and I think many people are beginning to get sick of it because I think most people can admit that it does get highly repetitive, I swear I've heard this "Whistle Song" in about 10 other songs already, kind of like how "Run It" is like "Yeah" and "No Daddy" put together. At least when Hot AC/Rock-leaning songs sound a like they actually sound like the artists' previous singles, not like somebody else's (like Nickelback - their singles may sound similar, but they don't sound like another band).
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Dec 25, 2005 0:57:27 GMT -5
Several of you have mentioned how disappointed you were that both 'Live Like You Were Dying' (an all-time record TEN weeks at #1 in R&R, and #1 for the year in BB) and 'You'll Think Of Me' (top five for the year at both BB & R&R) were smashes at AC but went nowhere at CHR/Pop.
I think it's obvious that CC and Inifnity have decided to slot their radio sations in every market and aim them at a specific audience; in light of the staggering number of songs which are played on any given CHR/Pop, CHR/Rhythmic and Urban station in any given market, those three format's core audience are appparently 12-24 year olds, and the rest of the stations in those markets are aimed at EVERYBODY aged 18+.
The VP/Programming for Emmis (which owns KPWR and WQHT) stated in R&R last summer that ALL of their CHR/Rhythmic stations have TWO objectives...1)--OWN the 12-24 demographic, and 2)--Bring new listeners to the station.
It would appear to me that judging by the HUGE percentage of music which CHR/Pop and CHR/Rhythmic stations share, that CHR/Pop stations have in many cases blown off the adults 25-54 audience, and left those listeners for the Country, Smooth Jazz (if there is one), Hot AC, AC, Talk, Adult Hits (JACK-FM) or Oldies station to pursue.
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Arson
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Post by Arson on Dec 25, 2005 16:42:10 GMT -5
At least when Hot AC/Rock-leaning songs sound a like they actually sound like the artists' previous singles, not like somebody else's (like Nickelback - their singles may sound similar, but they don't sound like another band). This is arguable depending on one's musical tastes. Some feel that one pop-rock group sounds much like the next on Hot AC and one alt/hard rock group melds into another on Alternative/Rock stations. As for Nickelback not sounding like another band, we have Theory of a Deadman and Default for that.
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seanblain
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Post by seanblain on Dec 25, 2005 18:36:26 GMT -5
Over the last few years including this one, the biggest selling artist have been Urban and Hip Hop, so it's natural their music would be played a lot of pop stations.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Dec 25, 2005 18:41:52 GMT -5
As overall sales plummet to embarassingly low numbers? I wonder if the top seller being rhy has more to do with thats the only thing being played rather than "thats what sells"
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lyrichord
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Post by lyrichord on Dec 25, 2005 19:41:34 GMT -5
As overall sales plummet to embarassingly low numbers? I wonder if the top seller being rhy has more to do with thats the only thing being played rather than "thats what sells" Good point. If your songs are being played every hour on pop in stations with huge audience, there's no way you shouldn't be multi-multiplatinum in sales, unless it's not actually music that people want to hear. On the CHR/Pop Rate the Music survey every month it's always pop/rock songs on the top ten with minimal rhythmic influence, but mysteriously (other than Kelly Clarkson), it's the songs charting on the CHR/Rhy survey being played most heavily on pop stations. As for me, I quit listening to CHR when KIIS LA traded playing Avril/Michelle/Vanessa every hour in for a rhythmic playlist, but I'm in mid-twenties and out of the pop demographic now anyway. Woo Hot AC and Alternative!
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Dec 25, 2005 19:46:55 GMT -5
I guess Im too old for pop now too since they cater to 12-18 year olds now. Damn
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crewfan20
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Post by crewfan20 on Dec 25, 2005 21:51:42 GMT -5
Since it was brought up the differences between KIIS in LA and WNCI in Columbus, I thought I would post the top 30 for each from mediabase.
KIIS
LW: Dec 11 - Dec 17 TW: Dec 18 - Dec 24 Updated: Sun Dec 25 3:25 AM PST
Station Rank Spins Audience lw TW Artist Title TW lw +/- Reach/ Mill 1 1 CHRIS BROWN Run It 101 102 -1 4.69 2 2 MARIAH CAREY Don't Forget About Us 97 101 -4 4.5587 3 3 PUSSYCAT DOLLS Stickwitu 97 99 -2 4.2966 4 4 D4L Laffy Taffy 79 85 -6 3.6355 7 5 RAY J One Wish 73 54 19 3.1519 5 6 KELLY CLARKSON Because Of You 64 75 -11 3.1128 6 7 SEAN PAUL We Be Burning (Legalize It) 58 58 0 2.6051 12 8 BLACK EYED PEAS My Humps 54 44 10 2.4172 13 9 RIHANNA If It's Lovin' That You Want 53 44 9 2.3637 8 10 BLACK EYED PEAS Pump It 50 51 -1 2.1634
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24 11 BABY BASH Mamacita (f/Marcos Hernandez) 49 25 24 2.1523 9 12 BEYONCE Check On It f/Slim Thug 49 50 -1 2.27 10 13 T-PAIN I'm Sprung 49 49 0 2.1379 17 14 PUSSYCAT DOLLS Beep 46 34 12 2.0733 14 15 GWEN STEFANI Luxurious 46 43 3 2.0524 15 16 FRANKIE J More Than Words 44 42 2 2.0275 11 17 NE-YO So Sick 44 48 -4 1.7725 16 18 KANYE WEST Gold Digger 44 39 5 2.1084 27 19 KELLY CLARKSON Walk Away 38 22 16 1.6284 21 20 FALL OUT BOY Sugar, We're Going Down 32 28 4 1.4231
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18 21 YING YANG TWINS Shake f/Pitbull 32 33 -1 1.319 25 22 MARIAH CAREY Shake It Off 26 25 1 1.3417 20 23 NELLY Grillz (f/Paul Wall, Ali&Gipp) 25 29 -4 0.9308 23 24 TRINA Here We Go f/Kelly Rowland 24 27 -3 0.8898 19 25 JUELZ SANTANA There It Go (The Whistle Song) 22 30 -8 0.9427 29 26 MISSY ELLIOTT Lose Control (f/Ciara) 20 18 2 0.9541 22 27 THREE 6 MAFIA Stay Fly 20 27 -7 0.5898 26 28 50 CENT Disco Inferno 19 22 -3 0.8601 31 29 50 CENT Just A Lil Bit 19 16 3 0.9799 32 30 BLACK EYED PEAS Don't Phunk With My Heart 18 16 2 0.8666
WNCI
LW: Dec 11 - Dec 17 TW: Dec 18 - Dec 24 Updated: Sun Dec 25 3:25 AM PST
Station Rank Spins Audience lw TW Artist Title TW lw +/- Reach/ Mill 2 1 CHRIS BROWN Run It 91 82 9 0.9651 4 2 SAVING JANE Girl Next Door 89 82 7 0.9126 5 3 BLACK EYED PEAS My Humps 87 80 7 0.9245 3 4 KELLY CLARKSON Because Of You 85 82 3 0.9119 7 5 NICKELBACK Photograph 85 75 10 0.9211 6 6 GORILLAZ Feel Good Inc 84 76 8 0.8791 1 7 KANYE WEST Gold Digger 77 84 -7 0.8561 10 8 PUSSYCAT DOLLS Stickwitu 44 36 8 0.4148 14 9 D.H.T. Listen To Your Heart 39 31 8 0.4001 8 10 LIFEHOUSE You And Me 39 38 1 0.4096
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13 11 CROSSFADE Cold 37 32 5 0.3753 9 12 FAT JOE Get It Poppin (f/ Nelly) 36 37 -1 0.3706 11 13 PAPA ROACH Scars 35 33 2 0.3625 12 14 CIARA 1,2 Step (f/Missy Elliott) 33 32 1 0.343 17 15 NATASHA BEDINGFIELD Unwritten 31 27 4 0.3264 22 16 MARIAH CAREY We Belong Together 29 25 4 0.3044 16 17 KELLY CLARKSON Behind These Hazel Eyes 29 30 -1 0.2701 20 18 STAIND Right Here 28 26 2 0.2699 21 19 ALL-AMERICAN REJECTS Dirty Little Secret 27 25 2 0.2356 18 20 MARIAH CAREY Shake It Off 27 27 0 0.2982
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26 21 PRETTY RICKY Your Body 27 23 4 0.2116 25 22 FALL OUT BOY Dance, Dance 26 24 2 0.17 15 23 GWEN STEFANI Luxurious 26 31 -5 0.2679 19 24 MARIAH CAREY Don't Forget About Us 25 26 -1 0.2425 24 25 BRITNEY SPEARS And Then We Kiss 24 25 -1 0.2458 36 26 KELLY CLARKSON Since U Been Gone 23 16 7 0.2524 37 27 CLICK FIVE Catch Your Wave 23 16 7 0.2122 34 28 BACKSTREET BOYS Crawling Back To You 22 16 6 0.1912 28 29 EMINEM When I'm Gone 22 20 2 0.16 23 30 FRICKIN' A Merry Merry Merry Frickin Xmas 22 25 -3 0.2244
I haven't been too happy with some of the songs WNCI has played this year, but I guess it could be worse. I could be listening to KIIS in LA. At times WNCI has been leaning too heavily torwards Urban/Rap/HipHop. There is a HOT AC station in town, but I can't stand to listen to them. They play "80's, 90's, and now". They play too much of the older music but not the good songs from those decades. I find myself more and more putting a CD in because I can't stand the song on the radio being played over and over and over.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 26, 2005 0:38:36 GMT -5
As overall sales plummet to embarassingly low numbers? I wonder if the top seller being rhy has more to do with thats the only thing being played rather than "thats what sells" I think you hit the nail right on the head there... With Country stars like Keith Urban and newcomer Carrie Underwood appealing to more than just the country demographic, perhaps sales numbers might be in for an upswing... assuming that CHR/Pop see what has happened to the sales numbers... I mean we're down 10% over last year... and a lot of it has to do with what's going on at the format...
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 26, 2005 0:50:35 GMT -5
Several of you have mentioned how disappointed you were that both 'Live Like You Were Dying' (an all-time record TEN weeks at #1 in R&R, and #1 for the year in BB) and 'You'll Think Of Me' (top five for the year at both BB & R&R) were smashes at AC but went nowhere at CHR/Pop. I think it's obvious that CC and Inifnity have decided to slot their radio sations in every market and aim them at a specific audience; in light of the staggering number of songs which are played on any given CHR/Pop, CHR/Rhythmic and Urban station in any given market, those three format's core audience are appparently 12-24 year olds, and the rest of the stations in those markets are aimed at EVERYBODY aged 18+. The VP/Programming for Emmis (which owns KPWR and WQHT) stated in R&R last summer that ALL of their CHR/Rhythmic stations have TWO objectives...1)--OWN the 12-24 demographic, and 2)--Bring new listeners to the station. It would appear to me that judging by the HUGE percentage of music which CHR/Pop and CHR/Rhythmic stations share, that CHR/Pop stations have in many cases blown off the adults 25-54 audience, and left those listeners for the Country, Smooth Jazz (if there is one), Hot AC, AC, Talk, Adult Hits (JACK-FM) or Oldies station to pursue. Marv, another great post... I think you or I could probably do a much better job programming than these conglomerates... You talked a little about "slotting"... something that I started suspecting several months ago in this market... Using the L.A. market as an example, Clear Channel owns both KIIS and KYSR... typically a Hot AC and a Top 40 are going to share a number of songs... If you compare their current top 30 playlists, you'll see KIIS and KYSR share exactly ZERO songs!!! Now, this might be a little bit of a bad example because KYSR is about the slowest Hot AC in the nation at adding songs and KIIS leans heavily urban... but it does illustrate the fact that they are trying to keep the stations COMPLETELY separate in terms of listeners... Power 106 has tried to gain listeners by focusing on 12-24's, but they've lost them to the tune of 23% over the past year... so I guess whatever they are doing isn't working...
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top40dj
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Post by top40dj on Dec 26, 2005 3:36:50 GMT -5
Several of you have mentioned how disappointed you were that both 'Live Like You Were Dying' (an all-time record TEN weeks at #1 in R&R, and #1 for the year in BB) and 'You'll Think Of Me' (top five for the year at both BB & R&R) were smashes at AC but went nowhere at CHR/Pop. I think it's obvious that CC and Inifnity have decided to slot their radio sations in every market and aim them at a specific audience; in light of the staggering number of songs which are played on any given CHR/Pop, CHR/Rhythmic and Urban station in any given market, those three format's core audience are appparently 12-24 year olds, and the rest of the stations in those markets are aimed at EVERYBODY aged 18+. The VP/Programming for Emmis (which owns KPWR and WQHT) stated in R&R last summer that ALL of their CHR/Rhythmic stations have TWO objectives...1)--OWN the 12-24 demographic, and 2)--Bring new listeners to the station. It would appear to me that judging by the HUGE percentage of music which CHR/Pop and CHR/Rhythmic stations share, that CHR/Pop stations have in many cases blown off the adults 25-54 audience, and left those listeners for the Country, Smooth Jazz (if there is one), Hot AC, AC, Talk, Adult Hits (JACK-FM) or Oldies station to pursue. Marv, another great post... I think you or I could probably do a much better job programming than these conglomerates... You talked a little about "slotting"... something that I started suspecting several months ago in this market... Using the L.A. market as an example, Clear Channel owns both KIIS and KYSR... typically a Hot AC and a Top 40 are going to share a number of songs... If you compare their current top 30 playlists, you'll see KIIS and KYSR share exactly ZERO songs!!! Now, this might be a little bit of a bad example because KYSR is about the slowest Hot AC in the nation at adding songs and KIIS leans heavily urban... but it does illustrate the fact that they are trying to keep the stations COMPLETELY separate in terms of listeners... Power 106 has tried to gain listeners by focusing on 12-24's, but they've lost them to the tune of 23% over the past year... so I guess whatever they are doing isn't working... 50 Cent overkill :) Their remix shows suck also...KPWR hasn't found its new "grove" yet..
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 26, 2005 3:54:55 GMT -5
Power 106 has tried to gain listeners by focusing on 12-24's, but they've lost them to the tune of 23% over the past year... so I guess whatever they are doing isn't working... 50 Cent overkill :) Their remix shows suck also...KPWR hasn't found its new "grove" yet.. I wish .50 would just pickup eminem and the 2 of them would go far far away for a long long time and not make any new "music"... I know a lot of people who this would make very happy! :)
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Dec 27, 2005 12:27:06 GMT -5
As a fifty-something baby-boomer, I can certainly state that one HUGE reason why CD sales are down (say what you will about Ipods and downloading) is that there is NOBODY who is a core artist at CHR/Pop who can not only draw huge numbers of buyers into their local Circuit City, Target or wherever, to buy new music, but to have sufficient income to not only buy the newest CD from Mariah, Kanye West, Avril Lavigne, or whomever, but to spend time BROWSING in a record store and walk outy with SEVERAL CDs and perhaps even a boxed-set, and a credit-card bill for $50.00+.
Going back to the eighties, you had SONGWRITERS dominating the format as opposed to the PRODUCERS who own the format these days, to the point that when such superb songwriters as George Michael, Don Henley, Elton John, Steve Wonder, Michael Jackson, The Eagles, Billy Joel and TONS of others were putting out exceptional material, it was not uncommon for anybody on this board to walk into their local retailer and walk out with SEVERAL CDs, as opposed to being first in line at Target or Circuit City on any given Tuesday, rushing in to buy the latest from Ms. Lavigne, Eminem or whomever, and walk out of that store having spent only $15.00 in stead of $50.00 or usually MUCH more.
Another issue about CHR/Pop's narrower appeal goes hand in hand with those ever narrower-playlists, which results in situation such as KIIS & KPWR (or the local CHR/Pop and CHR/Rhythmic station in YOUR hometown sounding WAAAAAYYYYYY too much alike); the fact that there have been VERY few kick-ass rock singles which have bee HUGE hits at the format.
Jon Bon Jovi's EXCEPTIONAL 'Live My Life' was a top ten single, and is arguably the biggest and best hard rock single to actually be a hit at CHR/Pop radio in years.
The fact that hard rockers such as Def Leppard, Bryan Adams, Bruce Springsteen, Guns 'N Roses & numerous others sold MILLIONS of CDs during the eighties is because while those artist were all selling lots of record due to the airplay which they received out-of-the-box at your hometown flame-throwin' radio station, it was the HUGE success which those rockers and many others enjoyed at CHR/Pop (especially Def Leppard & Bruce Springsteen) which enabled them to release mega-selling CDs which went on to earn SILVER status for selling in excess of TEN MILLION copies a pop.
When KIIS hit that 10.0 share in the fall of 1984, their playlist was as wide as could be, with Prince, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, Tina Turner, Don Henley, The Police, Daryl Hall & John Oates sharing airtime with the likes of Wham, Phil Collins, Aretha Franklin, Van Halen, Journey and EVERYBODY else out there; it was that VARIETY and VERY wide range of music which you'd hear on KIIS, WNCI, WZPL, and lots of CHR/Pop powerhouses coast-to-coast which resulted in both STRATOSPHERIC ratings for the format, and stratospheric CD sales as well, and there's no doubt that the two do go hand-in-hand.
And I (almost!!) didn't even mention Garth Brooks, who burst onto the scene in 1989 and sent tons of adult listeners bailing out from their CHR/Pop station and scampering to their local country station, and into their local music store to buy LOTS of CDs, while artists such as Tone-Loc, MC Hammer, and Vanilla Ice came and went VERY quickly.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 27, 2005 17:58:10 GMT -5
Another great post marv... I'll respond later...
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 28, 2005 0:13:18 GMT -5
As a fifty-something baby-boomer, I can certainly state that one HUGE reason why CD sales are down (say what you will about Ipods and downloading) is that there is NOBODY who is a core artist at CHR/Pop who can not only draw huge numbers of buyers into their local Circuit City, Target or wherever, to buy new music, but to have sufficient income to not only buy the newest CD from Mariah, Kanye West, Avril Lavigne, or whomever, but to spend time BROWSING in a record store and walk outy with SEVERAL CDs and perhaps even a boxed-set, and a credit-card bill for $50.00+. This is soooooooooo true... CHR/Pop is so "currents based" that it's sick right now... There are NO CORE artists and there is No GOLD! Heck, even recurrents don't get nearly enough spins... Will you be hearing any of Kelly Clarkson's songs on a CHR/Pop station 5 years from now??? Probably not, the way things are headed... I remember those days... though due to the typical monetary constraints of a college student, I was more into 45's than CD's... as I really wanted to get my hands on the "most good music I could afford"... I'd only buy a CD usually either if it was from someone I really liked (i.e: Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Journey, Tom Petty, Don Henley, etc) or if it had like 3 or more hits on it... Very true... there was a time when there were lots of good hard rock songs out there.. and you're right about Bon Jovi's "It's My Life".... it was like a breath of fresh air when it came out... and CHR/Pop stations actually played it a lot!!! It was my favorite song of the entire year of 2000... All I can say is the mid-late 80's were a great time for the format... I own so many of the aforementioned artists and their CD's now, it's pretty amazing... Garth changed things for sure... he helped make Country "cool" again... and "artists" like Tone-Loc, er Milli Vanilli and Vanilla Ice were VERY polarizing... people loved them or hated them... I was one of the haters (though I didn't mind Hammer too much)... and a lot of other people seemed to agree with me... as the format has never seen numbers like those in the mid 80's...
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Dec 31, 2005 0:44:15 GMT -5
It unquestionably won't see ratings like THOSE from the eighties unless it chooses to broaden it's target audience and start going after adult listeners again.
Biut because thre is FAR more DEFENSIVE radio programming as opposed to AGGRESSIVE radio programming, that's not likely to happen soon.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 31, 2005 0:53:47 GMT -5
It unquestionably won't see ratings like THOSE from the eighties unless it chooses to broaden it's target audience and start going after adult listeners again. Biut because thre is FAR more DEFENSIVE radio programming as opposed to AGGRESSIVE radio programming, that's not likely to happen soon. That would be undeniably true... over the past 3 years in particular, the CHR formats have seen a pretty good sized slide... Stations used to have "world exclusives" or be proud to be the first "on" new stuff... you don't see that in L.A. and several other markets today... As in sports, lots of offense and aggressive play is exciting, slow, defensive type games are usually dull and boring... that would be the state of a lot of the format... Maybe a bunch of us should just launch our own top 40 station!
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Tyler46
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Post by Tyler46 on Dec 31, 2005 14:27:55 GMT -5
This is soooooooooo true... CHR/Pop is so "currents based" that it's sick right now... There are NO CORE artists and there is No GOLD! Heck, even recurrents don't get nearly enough spins... Will you be hearing any of Kelly Clarkson's songs on a CHR/Pop station 5 years from now??? Probably not, the way things are headed... So what if recurrents aren't being played a lot? I mean, who the hell wants to hear the same songs over and over again. I actually have a problem with radio stations overplaying songs to death and keep on playing them even after their peak. Also, I don't think there's a problem with the Pop chart right now. I mean Pop is supposed to play what's popular and that's what it's doing. I notice that you have a problem with certain songs not being played, but do you really think teenagers really want to hear "Better Days" "Some Hearts" or "Have a nice day." I mean it just doesn' t appeal to the Pop demographic (P6-17 crowd). They appeal to the Hot/AC crowd and that's where they should be played. There's a balance on the Pop chart, unlike 2003 where there was an overflow of Urban songs all throughout the year. This year was an improvement, and i'm sure it will improve more throughout 2006.
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top40dj
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Post by top40dj on Dec 31, 2005 14:35:58 GMT -5
This is soooooooooo true... CHR/Pop is so "currents based" that it's sick right now... There are NO CORE artists and there is No GOLD! Heck, even recurrents don't get nearly enough spins... Will you be hearing any of Kelly Clarkson's songs on a CHR/Pop station 5 years from now??? Probably not, the way things are headed... So what if recurrents aren't being played a lot? I mean, who the hell wants to hear the same songs over and over again. I actually have a problem with radio stations overplaying songs to death and keep on playing them even after their peak. Also, I don't think there's a problem with the Pop chart right now. I mean Pop is supposed to play what's popular and that's what it's doing. I notice that you have a problem with certain songs not being played, but do you really think teenagers really want to hear "Better Days" "Some Hearts" or "Have a nice day." I mean it just doesn' t appeal to the Pop demographic (P6-17 crowd). They appeal to the Hot/AC crowd and that's where they should be played. There's a balance on the Pop chart, unlike 2003 where there was an overflow of Urban songs all throughout the year. This year was an improvement, and i'm sure it will improve more throughout 2006. Actually, yes I do believe Goo Goo, Carrie Underwood (AI hello???) and Bon Jovi would still be lsitened to by young people. I had Better Days on in my car a couple of weeks ago and my 10 yr old cousin asked me about it because she thought it sounded nice...SHE even hates Laffy Taffy.
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Post by themakshack on Dec 31, 2005 16:13:20 GMT -5
I mean Pop is supposed to play what's popular and that's what it's doing. I notice that you have a problem with certain songs not being played, but do you really think teenagers really want to hear "Better Days" "Some Hearts" or "Have a nice day." I mean it just doesn' t appeal to the Pop demographic (P6-17 crowd). They appeal to the Hot/AC crowd and that's where they should be played. Are you implying that only music that caters to the 6-17-year-old crowd is popular? Are you also implying that Hot AC music is not popular? I disagree with your statement about how teenagers don't want to hear "Better Days", "Some Hearts" or "Have A Nice Day". How do you know that they don't want to hear it?
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Tyler46
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Post by Tyler46 on Dec 31, 2005 16:26:34 GMT -5
Because it's no getting any call-out on the format or any good response, therefore it isn't being played.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 31, 2005 16:29:30 GMT -5
Are you implying that only music that caters to the 6-17-year-old crowd is popular? Are you also implying that Hot AC music is not popular? I disagree with your statement about how teenagers don't want to hear "Better Days", "Some Hearts" or "Have A Nice Day". How do you know that they don't want to hear it? Not at all... Hot AC is popular and has held it's own the past few years while AC and CHR/Pop have slid... The main point I'm trying to get across is that CHR/Pop PD's today ONLY CARE ABOUT the 6-17 demo and WHAT THEY THINK THEY WANT TO HEAR.. rather than what they really want to hear.... and of course, they still care less about the 18-49's... I'm sure a lot of 6-17 year olds want to hear Goo Goo Dolls, Carrie Underwood, Bon Jovi, Rob Thomas, James Blunt, etc... but the PD's have it in THEIR HEADS that the 6-17's don't want to hear these artists, therefore they don't even give these artists/songs a chance!!!
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