John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 18, 2005 1:04:29 GMT -5
It seems to go on every few years... the CHR/Pop format gets to a stage where it leans HEAVILY towards the Urban/Rap side of things... and of course now is one of those times...
With some "CHR/Pop" stations such as KIIS FM 102.7 in L.A. not having a single true pop/rock song in their current top 30, it's obvious things are very out of whack... Yes, no Nickelback (despite being #3 in the nation), Green Day, etc is to be found on KIIS...
I think the next 6 months is going to see A LOT of change at the format... as more people (like me) abandon top 40 stations like KIIS for other formats like Hot AC and Country...
What do you all think???
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Dec 18, 2005 1:06:33 GMT -5
It's a shame, why have Urban stations separate if Pop is going to play the exact same thing.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 18, 2005 1:32:29 GMT -5
It's a shame, why have Urban stations separate if Pop is going to play the exact same thing. Exactly!!! And IMHO right now, CHR/Pop sounds like CHR/Urban ... and HOT AC sounds like CHR/Pop... Things are broken, huh?
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Diablo Cody™
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Post by Diablo Cody™ on Dec 18, 2005 1:38:44 GMT -5
TAKE KIIS OFF THE DAMN PANEL!
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 18, 2005 2:38:48 GMT -5
TAKE KIIS OFF THE DAMN PANEL! Yeah, really... put them on the CHR/Urban panel along with Power One-oh-crap until they straighten up!
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seanblain
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Post by seanblain on Dec 18, 2005 3:32:50 GMT -5
It seems to go on every few years... the CHR/Pop format gets to a stage where it leans HEAVILY towards the Urban/Rap side of things... and of course now is one of those times... With some "CHR/Pop" stations such as KIIS FM 102.7 in L.A. not having a single true pop/rock song in their current top 30, it's obvious things are very out of whack... Yes, no Nickelback (despite being #3 in the nation), Green Day, etc is to be found on KIIS... I think the next 6 months is going to see A LOT of change at the format... as more people (like me) abandon top 40 stations like KIIS for other formats like Hot AC and Country... What do you all think??? POP plays what is "popular" at the time, not a specific genre..There are just as many rock stations and ac stations for Nickelback and Green Day as there are urban stations.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 18, 2005 4:18:07 GMT -5
POP plays what is "popular" at the time, not a specific genre..There are just as many rock stations and ac stations for Nickelback and Green Day as they zre urban stations. But the problem is POP stations aren't playing all of what is popular like they USUALLY do... Nickelback's at 2x platinum off ONE song... that's pretty darned popular if you ask most people... Green Day is at 4x platinum, working on 5...
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seanblain
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Post by seanblain on Dec 18, 2005 4:38:52 GMT -5
POP plays what is "popular" at the time, not a specific genre..There are just as many rock stations and ac stations for Nickelback and Green Day as they zre urban stations. But the problem is POP stations aren't playing all of what is popular like they USUALLY do... Nickelback's at 2x platinum off ONE song... that's pretty darned popular if you ask most people... Green Day is at 4x platinum, working on 5... Funny because the top 2 songs on pop this year were by Kelly Clarkson, not an urban artist. And her music kind of has a rock edge as well..Photograph is still doing very well at pop radio and is #5.
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cnelson575
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Post by cnelson575 on Dec 18, 2005 5:07:01 GMT -5
I dont see how anyone can not agree that its absurd for a pop station to be 80 to 90% urban oriented. There wearing the genre in the ground which ultimately is not good for that genre.
When its hard to tell the difference between a pop station and a urban station something is not right. As far as whats popular, well if your not getting much choice what are you gonna listen to? Further more this and alot of stations like it ignore alot of popular acts that have had #1 albums and strong single sales.
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Dec 18, 2005 7:30:32 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with CHR Pop , it's a teenage oriented format and Rhythmic/Urban music is what's popular among teens these days . If you don't want to listen to Laffy Taffy and The Whistle Song you don't have to , it's your choice , especially in LA where you have one of the greatest rock stations around . Also , there are many CHR Pop stations which totally ignore Urban music like KUDD-FM . It could also be argued that this should be moved to the alt panel .
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JCMF3
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Post by JCMF3 on Dec 18, 2005 7:58:12 GMT -5
It seems to go on every few years... the CHR/Pop format gets to a stage where it leans HEAVILY towards the Urban/Rap side of things... and of course now is one of those times... When in the 1980s did CHR/Pop lean heavily toward Urban and rap music?
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Mega248
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Post by Mega248 on Dec 18, 2005 8:03:51 GMT -5
I voted no because it's not in any more "trouble" than it's ever been in before or anything.
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agon666
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Post by agon666 on Dec 18, 2005 9:02:01 GMT -5
The problem is that they don't put the right stations on the panel. KIIS SHOULD GO!
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Post by Pink Champagne Ricochet on Dec 18, 2005 11:00:17 GMT -5
But the problem is POP stations aren't playing all of what is popular like they USUALLY do... Nickelback's at 2x platinum off ONE song... that's pretty darned popular if you ask most people... Green Day is at 4x platinum, working on 5... Funny because the top 2 songs on pop this year were by Kelly Clarkson, not an urban artist. And her music kind of has a rock edge as well..Photograph is still doing very well at pop radio and is #5. I think what he's trying to say is that KISS LA isn't playing "Photograph" at all, despite its nationwide success. That's just wrong. And I can't stand these stations that are basically "rhythmic + Kelly Clarkson". Their whole playlists are basically urban songs, but they say they're pop because they play her. Incidentally, I don't think the format is in trouble. If it is, it's because of the repetition of certain songs and the problems with accepting new music and new artists. The domination of urban music isn't too bad to me, at least compared to a couple years ago. The chart itself seems more balanced, although there are certain stations out there that aren't. (BTW, Star 94 in Atlanta should go to the Hot AC panel if they aren't already). and i'm 18 and can't stand Laffy Taffy....so it's not a young people thing :) (though the Whistle Song is ok)
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MinusName
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Post by MinusName on Dec 18, 2005 12:37:58 GMT -5
Funny because the top 2 songs on pop this year were by Kelly Clarkson, not an urban artist. And her music kind of has a rock edge as well..Photograph is still doing very well at pop radio and is #5. And I can't stand these stations that are basically "rhythmic + Kelly Clarkson". Their whole playlists are basically urban songs, but they say they're pop because they play her. That's exactly how KCHZ was, thankfully they switched to Rhythmic, though it is one less station I can hear Kelly Clarkson on. I voted yes, but I do agree it's not in anymore trouble than it has been since 2002-2003. Some people here are saying how Pop is suppose to be playing what is popular and "Rap/Urban" music is popular? If you look at the album sales from the past week, you will find several albums that do not fit that genre, I think it is pretty obvious that this rhythmic stage is not as popular as people make it out to be, sure they have high album sales, but so do many other artists, such as Carrie Underwood, Kenny Chesney, and even Enya (who sold like 3-4 million on her last album) all who have a strong top 10 showing this past week. I disagree with "rhythmic" music being popular among teens, I don't know what teens you know, but at my high school "rock" was the in-thing. I went to a high school football game and the crowd was singing along to "Photograph," I can tell you right now that if a 50 Cent song came on there would've not been many people singing along to that. These are just my observations that I've witnessed, then again (this may sound really bad) but most of the people who were hardcore into rap dropped-out of high school, they were listening to too much Afroman I guess. "Rhythmic" may lean more towards teens as a whole, but that does not mean that the majority of teens listen to it. I myself am still waiting on a Hot AC station in Kansas City, there is one in Lawrence and St. Joe, but they don't come in clearly all the time. It makes me mad when all of the smaller cities around the area have awesome Hot AC stations (Des Moines, Wichita, I think Omaha has one too).
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moodang
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Post by moodang on Dec 18, 2005 13:07:27 GMT -5
Definitely yes! get better songs on there!!
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on Dec 18, 2005 13:14:00 GMT -5
I voted no because it's not in any more "trouble" than it's ever been in before or anything. I agree with this. It seems like every year someone says this, and CHR just keeps going strong. You need proof? Look at Z100. As much as it gets criticized on here, it's playing all the hits, and it's #4 in the New York ratings. It also has more listeners than any other radio station in the country! Just because KIIS is rhythmic doesn't mean the format is dead. These things go in cycles, and mainstream will be back in LA before too long.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on Dec 18, 2005 13:16:19 GMT -5
It seems to go on every few years... the CHR/Pop format gets to a stage where it leans HEAVILY towards the Urban/Rap side of things... and of course now is one of those times... When in the 1980s did CHR/Pop lean heavily toward Urban and rap music? The late 80's. It was the beginning of a split in the format that eventually caused the creation of the Rhythmic chart.
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Post by de781 on Dec 18, 2005 13:30:19 GMT -5
TAKE KIIS OFF THE DAMN PANEL! Yeah, really... put them on the CHR/Urban panel along with Power One-oh-crap until they straighten up! I can't believe that station's not considered rhythmic. I think I checked its playlist once and didn't find ANYTHING non-rhythmic higher than #60, and maybe only three non-rhythm songs total (Nickelback, Green Day, and possibly something else). Kelly, Madonna, Gwen, BEP, etc were above 60, but they're really all rhythmic artists. I'm still trying to figure out why urban and rhythmic aren't the same thing. There's really NO difference except that some stations are too elitist to play something like BEP, Gwen, or PCD's that might be viewed as "pop". There's no real difference in sound or style of music. I thought Z100 was far too urban and anti-rock, anti-dance, but KIIS' ignorance of dance, rock, even R&B and pure pop is disturbing. I don't see why this is considered a "pop" station at all, let alone the 2nd most important pop station. Pop's supposed to be about displaying the best & most popular music of ALL genres.
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josh1414
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Post by josh1414 on Dec 18, 2005 13:58:59 GMT -5
Why are people saying rap/urban is music is the most popular among teens? It really isn't. I've been to 3 schools and almost every single kid there was into "rock" or alternative music. What's wrong with the Pop radio is that they have the wrong stations on the panel and i bet you that most of the time radio isn't even playing what people want to hear, but rather what the Dj's want to play or hear. And yeah, i noticed a lot more urban songs on the countdown. I bet you that if "One wish" "Stay fly" "I think they like me" were released a couple of years earlier, they wouldn't be as high as they are right now.
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Dec 18, 2005 16:21:01 GMT -5
The kids who aren't into urban music don't listen to CHR/Pop stations . They listen to stations which play the music they like . Pop stations still have the highest audience numbers and strong pop airplay usually is a major reason for strong album sales . Other than Green Day and Kelly Clarkson the biggest selling albums this year have all been by rhythmic acts (BEP , Kanye West , Mariah Carey ) and all of these acts have benefitted from major pop airplay . The only major acts who are being completely ignored by Pop stations are country acts.
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mst3k
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Post by mst3k on Dec 18, 2005 16:29:57 GMT -5
Based on the original post, I'd vote "yes" that KIIS is no longer a Pop station. But they're clearly not indicative of the format as a whole, so "no" to the question that was actually posed.
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Post by themakshack on Dec 18, 2005 16:50:33 GMT -5
The CHR/Pop format has always been in trouble ever since 2001. That's when variety starts disappearing. The format has improved somewhat in 2004 and 2005 compared to 2002 and 2003, but there's definitely room for further improvement (i.e. Add back dance and country!)
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josh1414
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Post by josh1414 on Dec 18, 2005 16:55:52 GMT -5
Country was almost never played on pop. I'd say this year was one of the first times we've had 2 country songs go Top 40 in one year (Live like you were dying and You'll think of me)
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Dec 18, 2005 17:01:57 GMT -5
Back in the 70s and early 80s it was not uncommon for country smashes to cross over to the Pop chart .
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Post by themakshack on Dec 18, 2005 17:06:45 GMT -5
Country was almost never played on pop. I'd say this year was one of the first times we've had 2 country songs go Top 40 in one year (Live like you were dying and You'll think of me) They did play country crossover back during the late 90's and early 2000's. Shania had two singles peaking inside the top 5 and another two peaking inside the top 20 between 1998 and 2000. LeAnn Rimes had one single peaking inside the top 5 and another one peaking inside the top 10 between 1997 and 2002. Faith Hill had three tracks peaking inside the top 20 between 1998 and 2001. Lonestar's "Amazed" peaked at #6 back in 2000, while Dixie Chick's "Landslide" peaked at #12 back in 2003. So yes, CHR/Pop did play country more often before.
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MinusName
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Post by MinusName on Dec 18, 2005 18:44:45 GMT -5
I'm not really complaining about the Pop chart because this year was really balanced, with the exception of 50 Cent and Fat Joe who got far more airplay than they deserved. I just don't like it when rhythmic/urban artists make comebacks and they get played 10x more than those non-rhythmic/urban artists who had equal success, example: Shakira, Switchfoot, etc. and it is not because their singles were bad, because imo their singles were much better. I think Pop radio needs to find some new artists and stop going after one-hit/album wonder rhythmic/urban artists. I probably wouldn't even be complaining at all if it weren't for acts like D4L.
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Post by de781 on Dec 18, 2005 21:49:05 GMT -5
The CHR/Pop format has always been in trouble ever since 2001. That's when variety starts disappearing. The format has improved somewhat in 2004 and 2005 compared to 2002 and 2003, but there's definitely room for further improvement (i.e. Add back dance and country!) Z100, for one, never really played much or any country at all. There was a little bit of the most mainstream country around the 1998-2001 period. I can't really comment on other markets, but the genre definitely seems to be more popular (on CHR, as well as overall) outside of the NYC area. As far as Z100's concerned, the major problems lately are that they're kind of ignoring AC/Hot AC acts, dance acts, and the edgier, more risque of the rock music. Unlike KIIS, though, they are still at least playing the most popular/mainstream of those three genres. It seems like Z100 was most diverse in 2001-2003. In 2002 and early 2003, techno/dance was all over the station. Plus, hot AC artists like Pink, Avril, Alanis, Santana, Matchbox Twenty, Michelle Branch, Sugar Ray, were still capable of succss at pop. Even Celine Dion still got Z100 airplay back then. Rap was finally getting its fair share of Z100 support--unlike the late 90's when they'd obsesses over one or two rap songs every few months, like they do with dance & rock now--but it wasn't at all dominating the channel. There seemed to be a true balance, except maybe for country, on pop radio in 2002, at least as far as Z100 was concerned. I just hope KIIS is forced to become more like Z100 rather than Z100 conforming itself to KIIS' style. Z100's not in good shape, but it looks excellent in comparison to KIIS. Songs like "Whistle Song", "Stay Fly", "Here We Go", "Badd", "Play", that aren't even huge rhythmic/urban smashes shouldn't be supported by pop when #1 and #2 dance, rock, and AC songs are regularly ignored by the same stations.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 18, 2005 21:57:30 GMT -5
Funny because the top 2 songs on pop this year were by Kelly Clarkson, not an urban artist. And her music kind of has a rock edge as well..Photograph is still doing very well at pop radio and is #5. I think what he's trying to say is that KISS LA isn't playing "Photograph" at all, despite its nationwide success. That's just wrong. And I can't stand these stations that are basically "rhythmic + Kelly Clarkson". Their whole playlists are basically urban songs, but they say they're pop because they play her. Incidentally, I don't think the format is in trouble. If it is, it's because of the repetition of certain songs and the problems with accepting new music and new artists. Exactly... KIIS doesn't play Nickelback AT ALL!!! ... except for the one time you hear it on the national countdown on the weekends... KIIS and MANY other CHR/Pop stations are essentially CHR/Urban + Kelly Clarkson & Gwen Stefani and the occasional Green Day or Avril Lavigne song... Repetition of certain songs is indeed a problem at the format... it is "normal" at KIIS for 4 or more songs to be getting 90 or more spins in a week... with "Run It" routinely being over 100 last time I bothered to look... do I want to hear a song every hour and a half??? Do you? Do the listeners??? I think the answer more than likely is "no" to all 3 of those questions... it would be a lot smarter to give these songs maybe 50-60 spins a week and give songs like Nickelback's and others some spins...
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 18, 2005 22:05:52 GMT -5
It seems to go on every few years... the CHR/Pop format gets to a stage where it leans HEAVILY towards the Urban/Rap side of things... and of course now is one of those times... When in the 1980s did CHR/Pop lean heavily toward Urban and rap music? I didn't really mean for this to cover the 80's... I was more speaking of the 90's to present, but since you brought it up, the one time Top 40 leaned heavily urban in the 80's in many markets was 1988 & 1989... In addition to the aforementioned split of CHR into the CHR/Pop and CHR/Urban formats, you may also remember that in 1989 a format called "Rock 40" came into prominence led by Scott Shannon's "Pirate Radio" (KQLZ) 100.3 FM here in L.A... It was basically top 40 without any of the urban acts... and leaned VERY rock... Tone Loc's "Wild Thing" and "Funky Cold Medina" along with a couple of Prince & George Michael songs were about as urban as the station got... though I did hear NKOTB's "Hangin' Tough" spiked a few times there... The Rock 40 format became so popular at one point that for a couple of years there actually was a "Rock 40" chart in the trades... CHR/Pop stations such as KIIS that weren't playing anything with a rock edge, suddenly had to adjust and rock-leaning acts such as Bon Jovi, Guns N'bRoses, .38 Special and White Lion began to be played there once KIIS and other Top 40 stations adjusted to the Rock 40 effect... Rock 40 went just as quickly as it came though and by 1992, it was no more...
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