Perp
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Post by Perp on Aug 5, 2004 14:56:38 GMT -5
Dumping ungodly numbers of spins into the dead overnight hours just to pump the total higher and higher is shady. No wonder she couldn't come closer than 4,4 million of Tim's audience, even at her peak on July 26th, when she was just TWENTY spins behind him. Now it all makes sense.
Billboard's methodology definitely needs to be re-worked so this kind of stuff can't happen again.
Mediabase 7 day spins as of Mon Jul 26 11:51 AM PST
Rank Rank Spins Spin % LW TW Move LW TW Move Change Aud. 1 1 0 4876 5136 260 6% 49.232 TIM MCGRAW Live Like You Were Dying 3 2 +1 3928 5116 1188 24% 44.829 REBA MCENTIRE Somebody 2 3 -1 4442 4568 126 3% 43.298 KENNY CHESNEY I Go Back
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smack
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Post by smack on Aug 5, 2004 15:00:43 GMT -5
Congratulations to Reba. Her song has stirred up the longest thread in the country section on here, and after checking the chr/pop, it would be the 3rd longest on all of these boards. Britney and Janet both have 18 pages, Reba is up to 17 and counting lol. But this one should be done in a week or so, when she drops off the RR chart to recurrents, then we can start a new one lol
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Post by musicfan_84 on Aug 5, 2004 15:02:21 GMT -5
You also have to remember that this song has been out since January :) But, her next single is just around the corner... here we go again! Haha
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Aug 5, 2004 15:43:57 GMT -5
This is a very mediocre song at best. To jump over Tim Mcgraw and Kenny Chesney who are at their peak is crazy. If I'm Gonna Take that Mountain didn't do any better than it did this song shouldn't have made it to number 1. If Mark Wills would have released this as a single off of his album when he had the chance it would have maybe been a top 15 record. I don't know exactly how payola works, it may be just pay for the spin, but if you watch the track of this song it is obvious that something happened. If it was a TRUE number one the spins wouldn't be falling as much as they are. So because you don't care for it, it should not be a hit? Please. Look at the call out research! You're obviously in the minority. It was the #1 testing record among all people aged 25-54 last week.
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Matt4319
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Post by Matt4319 on Aug 5, 2004 15:46:24 GMT -5
Congratulations to Reba. Her song has stirred up the longest thread in the country section on here, and after checking the chr/pop, it would be the 3rd longest on all of these boards. Britney and Janet both have 18 pages, Reba is up to 17 and counting lol. But this one should be done in a week or so, when she drops off the RR chart to recurrents, then we can start a new one lol Many topics in Music News have crossed 20 pages.
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j
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Post by j on Aug 6, 2004 6:31:17 GMT -5
Some things I’ve been thinking about.
1. Is it even possible to give over 70 phone interviews in a week? 2. Approximately how many spins were bought that week? 3. What would the song’s hypothetical spin total be during the week it peaked without the promotion blitz? 4. What should we make of such “promotions”? Should I condemn it or applaud it?
I agree with musicmuse and bamafan2102.
The following numbers are only estimates and may be a little inaccurate. Reba was at 3900 spins and she jumped to 5000 spins in a week. That’s +1100. The week prior to that, she was the greatest gainer at +350 or so. Even if she kept up the trend, she would only be at 4250 the following week.
Currently the song is getting an average of 12 spins for “Overnight.” So approximately 38–12 = 26 overnight spins were bought on KUBL, 39–12 = 27 bought on WNKT etc. Using this method, that’s 114 spins bought on the 6 leaders for the song that week alone. Or, that’s 97 spins bought on 5 Citadel stations – the 5 stations among the 8 leaders for the song that week.
Assume that it is indeed true that she made 70 phone interviews in a week. That’s 10 a day over 7 days or 14 a day over 5 days (If she does them early in the week, then the station may broadcast a repeat a few days later and that maximizes what the value of the interview.) Live interviews attract more attention, as well as those where they take a few listeners’ calls live over the air. Also to make the interview more effective, she may have to record promos for it beforehand. Interviews she did that were over and done with in 5 minutes probably translated to 1 or 2 spins at most. Interviews where she took time to do them live, take a few calls, hang on the line after it’s over to make small talk and banter with the DJs/PD to cultivate goodwill or “create a personal connection” like musicfan84 said probably took an hour each at the very least. Even considering all the above, 70 interviews seem possible, so let’s not quibble about that.
All in all, the 70 interviews may translate into as little as 70 spins, or 700 spins for “Somebody.” If it’s 700, then the label only needs to buy 50 spins for the song to get it to 5100. However, we know it’s not 700 because the label admitted they did buy airtime for the song from Citadel, After Midnite and Entercom (probably some overlap there), and the 5 Citadel stations’ overnight spins alone account for 97. We can also tell the label didn’t buy just 50 spins just by looking at the crazy overnight spins for the song that week. Anyway, let’s take the average she gained from interviews – about 350 – and assume the label bought 1100 – 350 (natural gain) – 350 (interview gain) = 400 spins. If we assume it’s $50 per spin (I pulled the number out of thin air), then that’s $20,000. A far cry from $100,000, but a relatively big sum nonetheless.
Lastly, let’s question the assumption of a +350 natural gain without promotion by taking a hypothetical look at the song without the promotion blitz. Last week, when the promotion was over, it had 3847 spins and is looking to end this week at less than 3000 spins. So I don’t think it could have been the greatest gainer the week before without the promotion because its spin trend would have been +350, +350, -400, -800 and how often does one go from greatest gainer to biggest loser so quickly? Most likely, it would’ve peaked around 3950 to 4000 spins on its own before declining, so more than 400 spins were bought, perhaps around 650.
So is this strategy of buying overnight spins “legitimate”? We have to look only at the means and methods employed, not the ends. If we do so, then arguments that it’s OK because the label wants to thank a veteran artist are irrelevant if we consider. I think that’s a nice gesture, but irrelevant here. I personally think the ends don’t justify the means here. If you think payola is bad, then it’s bad regardless of the motivation behind it; otherwise you’d be no different than the hypocritical Britney fans who complain when they think Christina Aguilera songs receive payola but don’t say a word when Britney’s songs get payolaed. If the song can’t get to #1 on its own merits, then it doesn’t deserve that status, obviously. If the interviews alone were enough to get “Somebody” to #1, then I’d be first in line applauding Reba’s hard work. But that’s not the case.
Personally, I think the song’s very good, but not #1 good. The first time I heard it, it sounded like a generic Rascal Flatts tune. However, the bigger issue here is that it exposes the fact that labels are willing to pay for receiving airplay, and stations are willing to be paid for giving airplay. Stations prostituting themselves for airplay prove that public opinion matter less and less for radio airplay and that can only be a bad thing. This strategy not only represents this alarming trend, but it also encourages future similar behavior. Next time, it might not be to thank a veteran artist. Next time, it might be so rampant, the public no longer has a say in airplay. If we don’t wish for that to happen, we need to put a stop to it now before we can no longer control it.
By the way, when was the callout research that put her at #1 best testing song carried out?
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Aug 6, 2004 6:38:56 GMT -5
Bottom line: She is getting called out and demonized for a practice regularly used by the labels.
The RateTheMusic data was from the All Access site last week, dated July 30.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Aug 6, 2004 6:41:44 GMT -5
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Perp
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Post by Perp on Aug 6, 2004 19:32:00 GMT -5
Thanks for that detailed, thought-out analysis, J.
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dragoneyez
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Post by dragoneyez on Aug 9, 2004 19:05:03 GMT -5
Don't have time to bother reading all this, but almost all artists on major labels recieve help from payolla. The labels obviously don't want their investment to be lost, so they buy adds and/or spins to make sure an audience hears the song. Tim McGraw (*cringe*) and Kenny Chesney (*double cringe*) participate in the same things.
Payolla is a horrible practice that shouldn't be necessary. But... it is. Having quality music doesn't equate to radio or commercial success very often, if at all.
The song's good and Reba deserves whatever success she gets, no matter how she gets it.
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Post by AwayFromTheSun on Aug 10, 2004 12:20:57 GMT -5
Thank you dragoneyez! Reba deserves it!
Shawn
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Dustin
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Post by Dustin on Aug 26, 2004 6:57:19 GMT -5
Even though some artists may not pay cash... they pay with backstage passes, free merchandise, autographs, etc.
Dustin ExtremeReba.com
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Sept 9, 2004 23:44:23 GMT -5
The fact that Reba and Terri Clark both hit #1 due to this unethical practice shows why Billboard's methodolgy should have been overhauled a long time ago; this same trick provided an intial boost to Mariah Carey's 'Through The Rain' on the CHR/Pop chart as well.
Meanwhile, Tim McGraw just extended his own record in R&R with TEN weeks at #1 for 'LLYWD', and when you add to that the staggering weekly spin total record he set five or six weeks ago since the reporting panel was reduced by approximately 28% last October, this song shows very little wear & tear after SIXTEEN weeks on the charts.
It should be obvious that R&R's charts are far more accurate than BBs, which has suffered numerous chart irregularities for well over THREE decades!!!!
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smack
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Post by smack on Sept 10, 2004 8:44:35 GMT -5
Well, that may be partially true, but I don't like how they determine how a record charts...it's not based on spins or audience, but some combination of that. I also don't like their recurrent policies, which allow a #2 song to go recurrent. I didn't like the fact that billboard changed theirs to a 20/15 rule either though. Look at all the other charts on BB....most of them are recurrent after they hit the 1/2way down the chart point. Country is 1/4th of the way down, and boom, it's recurrent The fact that Reba and Terri Clark both hit #1 due to this unethical practice shows why Billboard's methodolgy should have been overhauled a long time ago; this same trick provided an intial boost to Mariah Carey's 'Through The Rain' on the CHR/Pop chart as well. Meanwhile, Tim McGraw just extended his own record in R&R with TEN weeks at #1 for 'LLYWD', and when you add to that the staggering weekly spin total record he set five or six weeks ago since the reporting panel was reduced by approximately 28% last October, this song shows very little wear & tear after SIXTEEN weeks on the charts. It should be obvious that R&R's charts are far more accurate than BBs, which has suffered numerous chart irregularities for well over THREE decades!!!!
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Sept 10, 2004 8:45:48 GMT -5
It should be obvious that R&R's charts are far more accurate than BBs, which has suffered numerous chart irregularities for well over THREE decades!!!! I think the R&R chart is garbage and give it little credence. We don't know how it's calculated and the recurrent rules are ridiculous.
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Topay
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Post by Topay on Sept 10, 2004 10:32:39 GMT -5
It appears to me, just by looking at some of these boards, that all the other R&R charts (AC, Hot AC, Pop, etc) seem to be the main source, whereas for Country it seems like Billboard is the gospel of info. I'm the same way, to be honest. I follow Billboard Country more closely myself, but I also follow Billboard AC and Hot AC [Adult Top 40] more closely as well.
I like how both charts have different policies, but I too prefer Billboard's. R&R seems to want Country to be seen as a CHR format, so they do what they can to move it as quickly as possible.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Sept 10, 2004 23:49:11 GMT -5
I agree that R&R's recurrent rule for country is ridiculous, but the fact that BBs chart is very easy to manipulate is really troubling. But given the numerous instances where songs on many of its charts do lots of weird things and have been doing so for well over twenty years, that shouldn't surprise anybody either.
The fact that those record companies essentially purchased BBs #1 slot for Reba & Terri is still reprehensible.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Sept 11, 2004 9:41:23 GMT -5
The fact that those record companies essentially purchased BBs #1 slot for Reba & Terri is still reprehensible. If you think money was only involved in those two songs then you're highly mistaken.
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Vic
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Post by Vic on Sept 11, 2004 10:58:47 GMT -5
TCorey i totally agree with you. I just have one name to say....Toby Keith.
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Post by qwerty987 on Sept 11, 2004 13:53:18 GMT -5
Even though some artists may not pay cash... they pay with backstage passes, free merchandise, autographs, etc. And normal music fans never get any front row tickets or meet & greets, those are given to various (pretty much uninterested) radio personnel and competition winners...
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Pet Shop Boy
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Post by Pet Shop Boy on Sept 11, 2004 21:39:28 GMT -5
This is probably my favourite American Country song since... God, Jolene by Dolly Parton. Unless you count Dixie Chicks 'Landslide'. I wish it could've been a hit on its own merits. I really do continue to think that the fact it sold no albums for her says it all though.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Sept 12, 2004 10:00:33 GMT -5
I wish it could've been a hit on its own merits. It wasn't a hit on it's own merits? It's entire lengthy chart run is discredited?
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drock89
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Post by drock89 on Sept 12, 2004 10:12:23 GMT -5
Mandy does have a point tho. Whether it has to do with payola or not, "Somebody" didn't sell a million records.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Sept 12, 2004 11:49:21 GMT -5
Mandy does have a point tho. Whether it has to do with payola or not, "Somebody" didn't sell a million records. This can't be argued, but I won't go through and list the other hits from albums that have failed to scan one million. Because the album is "only" gold, this song isn't a hit? Sounds absurd.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Sept 12, 2004 23:07:49 GMT -5
My point is that the system Billboard uses for their singles charts can be manipulated way too easily, which demolishes the integrity of their charts as a whole.
Furthermore, I don't know of any of TK's #1 singles which needed 400%+ increases in overnight airplay bought and paid for by his record company for any of his charttoppers to get to #1.
The fact that 'Courtesy', 'IWTAM' and several of his charttoppers streaked to #1 (in anywhere from 9-15 weeks) without massive overnight airplay increases shows that the audience, not the record company's advertising budget, should be the #1 determining factor in how fast a song rises, and whether or not it hits #1.
The fact that such increases during a time period where no more than 20% of country radio listeners can usually be found at any given time (according to a recent Lon Helton column in R&R) makes such airplay increases rather dubious, even accounting for the word-of-mouth factor.
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