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Post by ss8 on Apr 23, 2015 15:44:09 GMT -5
I'm already hearing "See You Again" wayyyy too much on the radio and changing the station immediately. It served its purpose ("Uptown Funk" is gone) but now on the next one soon PLEASE! If this was the mid-late 80s chart formula, youd prob. get your wish. There is.NO.WAY.this song is going anywhere anytime soon lol. Song still barely smothering the hell out of radio. Sorry to say but its exactly in the same ' heading into possibly record breaking orbit zone' Blurred Lines was when it was only first taking off. Advantage SYA has is it already has 2 weeks at #1 so (as much as I dont care for the song) be prepared for it to do a LOT of damage and a LOT of you changing the station this entire summer. It's just one of those cheesy/ been there done that many, many x yet perfectly crafted multi format ballads that the GP (all different ages) will not get enough of anytime soon. :zzz |
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Post by ss8 on Apr 23, 2015 15:47:32 GMT -5
"Bitch Better Better Have My Money" would be Rihanna's 14th #1 if "See You Again", "Uptown Funk", "Earned It", "Sugar", "Trap Queen", "Love Me Like You Do", "Thinking Out Loud", "Shut Up And Dance", "GDFR", "Somebody", "Want To Want Me", "Style", "One Last Time", "Chains", "Post To Be", and "FourFiveSeconds" didn't exist. These "what if" scenarios can be fun, but also quite silly. At the end of the day, there's always going be competition of some sort. lol Um...ANY new 'decent' song by Rihanna already would've been #1 (we'd should've been looking at her 15th or 16th). Unfortunately FFS, BBMHMM and the new one were just 'that' bad lol. Simple as that. |
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Post by ry4n on Apr 23, 2015 15:48:13 GMT -5
"Bitch Better Better Have My Money" would be Rihanna's 14th #1 if "See You Again", "Uptown Funk", "Earned It", "Sugar", "Trap Queen", "Love Me Like You Do", "Thinking Out Loud", "Shut Up And Dance", "GDFR", "Somebody", "Want To Want Me", "Style", "One Last Time", "Chains", "Post To Be", and "FourFiveSeconds" didn't exist. These "what if" scenarios can be fun, but also quite silly. At the end of the day, there's always going be competition of some sort. lol Um...ANY new decent song by Rihanna already would've been #1 (we'd already be looking at her 15th or 16th). Unfortunately FFS, BBMHMM and the new one were just 'that' bad. That's the only simple reason. Ok, but that wasn't the point I was making at all? |
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Post by ss8 on Apr 23, 2015 15:49:40 GMT -5
lol Um...ANY new decent song by Rihanna already would've been #1 (we'd already be looking at her 15th or 16th). Unfortunately FFS, BBMHMM and the new one were just 'that' bad. That's the only simple reason. Ok, but that wasn't the point I was making at all? Sh*t youre quick lol. I made a few edits to my post, but think you got it ;). |
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Apr 23, 2015 16:26:30 GMT -5
When did the Hot 100 Airplay chart debut? I know in the early '90s Billboard had the Top 40 Monitor, but that wasn't the same as Hot 100 Airplay was it because there was airplay that counted toward the Hot 100 that wasn't covered by Top 40 Monitor? The Top 40 Radio Monitor made it's appearance in Billboard in the December 8, 1990 issue. It didn't count toward the Hot 100 until November 30, 1991. The Top 40 Radio Monitor chart eventually changed it's name to Hot 100 Airplay (sometime in 1993 I believe) |
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 23, 2015 16:57:00 GMT -5
When did the Hot 100 Airplay chart debut? I know in the early '90s Billboard had the Top 40 Monitor, but that wasn't the same as Hot 100 Airplay was it because there was airplay that counted toward the Hot 100 that wasn't covered by Top 40 Monitor? The Top 40 Radio Monitor made it's appearance in Billboard in the December 8, 1990 issue. It didn't count toward the Hot 100 until November 30, 1991. The Top 40 Radio Monitor chart eventually changed it's name to Hot 100 Airplay (sometime in 1993 I believe) But for at least some of the time the Top 40 Monitor existed, it didn't cover all stations that were used for the Hot 100. There were some stations still reporting playlists (i.e. not detections) that were not used to compile Top 40 Monitor. The week "This Used To Be My Playground" got to #1, Billboard even mentioned that the difference was those stations. Maybe when the name was changed to Hot 100 Airplay is when that chart perfectly matched what was used for the Hot 100. |
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Apr 23, 2015 18:03:38 GMT -5
Final Edit: Sorry for all the changes. The website I used is a bit unorganized. The change occurred on July 17, 1993. That's when the chart went from 101 monitored stations to 161. Here is a quote from the Hot 100 Singles Spotlight column that week (author: Kevin McCabe):
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 23, 2015 19:53:35 GMT -5
^ Interesting, thanks!
Does that mean AC wasn't included pre-1993? I didn't know that. It also sounds like it wasn't included in the Hot 100 as part of this change, but Adult Top 40 (which I think is now Hot AC) was included. Interesting.
And it's also interesting that 78 small-market unmonitored stations were still included for the Hot 100; as in, I can't believe in 1993 that many stations were still unmonitored.
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Post by Libra on Apr 23, 2015 20:32:38 GMT -5
^ Interesting, thanks! Does that mean AC wasn't included pre-1993? I didn't know that. It also sounds like it wasn't included in the Hot 100 as part of this change, but Adult Top 40 (which I think is now Hot AC) was included. Interesting. And it's also interesting that 78 small-market unmonitored stations were still included for the Hot 100; as in, I can't believe in 1993 that many stations were still unmonitored. Hot AC/Adult Top 40 wasn't recognized as a respective separate format, though, until the March 16, 1996 issue. (It was 4/22/1994 in R&R.) I'm inclined to think that stations that were recognized as such when the format classification was introduced, either would still have been counted as "Pop" stations up until then, or would indeed not have been counted at all. By the way, one thing I will add to the above information RE: Hot 100 Airplay - the airplay-only chart first appeared in the October 20, 1984 issue. (Likely only meaning that that's when we could first see what was happening on airplay separately.) Also, the given "Hot 100 Airplay" #1s for the 1991 chart year (12/8/90-11/23/91) are wrong. They're what Billboard have listed, but this is revisionist history at work - those are the #1s from the Radio Monitor, and not what the #1s on the actual Hot 100 Airplay were. (Well, on some weeks they were probably the same, but the point is the progression is wrong.) Both charts were printed individually in the magazine that year. As to some stations still reporting playlists rather than contributing monitored airplay for a few years - I'm inclined to think this was due to technology, or rather its limitations, at the time. |
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Hot AC Archiver
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Apr 23, 2015 21:08:54 GMT -5
The AC chart was called "Hot Adult Contemporary" at the time, but it did not mean the same thing as it does now. When the chart changed to detections, they said that they removed some of the AC panel that didn't play enough currents per hour. Thus they tried to make the chart "fresher".
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 23, 2015 21:50:19 GMT -5
Hot AC/Adult Top 40 wasn't recognized as a respective separate format, though, until the March 16, 1996 issue. (It was 4/22/1994 in R&R.) I'm inclined to think that stations that were recognized as such when the format classification was introduced, either would still have been counted as "Pop" stations up until then, or would indeed not have been counted at all. Billboard still had an AC chart at the time of this chart change, but then also had this Top 40 Adult format that was an offshoot of the Top 40 Monitor. So, what would be the current version? Interesting. That likely explains why I have seen some discrepancies for specific songs (like Mariah's "Someday"). Oh, I'm sure. I was simply making an observation that it's crazy so many stations were still unmonitored since BDS had been around for like 2 years at that point. We also learned with the advent of BDS that playlists via unmonitored stations tended to shortchange older songs, so that many stations still being unmonitored could have affected Hot 100 positions (which gets back to the other discussion we've had about how there are so many 'what if' things related to the charts). |
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Post by Libra on Apr 23, 2015 22:37:37 GMT -5
Hot AC/Adult Top 40 wasn't recognized as a respective separate format, though, until the March 16, 1996 issue. (It was 4/22/1994 in R&R.) I'm inclined to think that stations that were recognized as such when the format classification was introduced, either would still have been counted as "Pop" stations up until then, or would indeed not have been counted at all. Billboard still had an AC chart at the time of this chart change, but then also had this Top 40 Adult format that was an offshoot of the Top 40 Monitor. So, what would be the current version? They had an offshoot? Wasn't aware of that - when did that start appearing in the magazine? In any event, the "current version", so to speak, would be the chart introduced in 96. |
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 23, 2015 22:43:58 GMT -5
I think without See You Again, it would still be #1 and staring at immortality. See You Again, drew attention away from Uptown Funk and onto See You Again as well as other songs. That might not have happened as quickly without it. That's a good point! I actually did not think of that...perhaps Boom Boom Pow would've been more successful had I Gotta Feeling not come on the scene (and maybe be the second song in history to get 15 weeks at #1?)...very interesting to ponder how certain songs would've performed if a surprise hit didn't come along in a matter of a couple weeks... It's hard to know if it's a spurious correlation, but "UF" definitely started dropping more drastically in airplay once "SYA" hit #1. It can be interesting to think about as you said, but you can also play that game all day. For instance, would "One Sweet Day" have spent even more weeks at #1 if "Always Be My Baby" didn't start drawing airplay from it? "Always Be My Baby" debuted on Hot 100 Airplay the week "OSD" got its 11th week at #1, and it was #4 on Hot 100 Airplay the week "OSD" fell from #1, so it's very likely "ABMB" was eating into the airplay for "OSD." Or what if at that time all radio formats counted toward the Hot 100 as they do now? "OSD" had a lot of R&B and AC play, and it may have stayed on top even longer with the system that existed in the late '90s because no other song charting at that time had as much multi-format play. You could say the same for other long-running #1 songs. And then on the flip side, would "Uptown Funk" have spent fewer weeks at #1 if Mark and/or Bruno had another song impacting that took spins away from it the way follow-up singles often do? I definitely think radio not having something new to move on to helped "UF" have longevity, whereas with songs like One Sweet Day, I Will Always Love You, I'll Make Love To You, etc. there were follow-up singles that took took some airplay away. It can be fun to think about all of this stuff, but at the same time it's ultimately fruitless. Billboard still had an AC chart at the time of this chart change, but then also had this Top 40 Adult format that was an offshoot of the Top 40 Monitor. So, what would be the current version? They had an offshoot? Wasn't aware of that - when did that start appearing in the magazine? In any event, the "current version", so to speak, would be the chart introduced in 96. The offshoot I was referring to was from this item that was posted in this thread: Maybe I was not asking in a clear enough manner. Pre-1993 change, Billboard had a "Top 40 Radio Monitor" chart and also had a "Hot Adult Contemporary" chart. In 1993 they then widened the Top 40 panel and created the 3 'offshoots' mentioned there: Top 40/Mainstream, Top 40/Rhythm Crossover, and Top 40/Adult. The "Hot Adult Contemporary" chart still existed, though, so I assume it was different from "Top 40/Adult." I was basically asking two things: 1. Is the "Top 40/Adult" chart at that time basically what we now know as 'Adult Pop Songs' (which I believe is 'Hot AC' via Mediabase and thus a similar name to the old Billboard "Hot Adult Contemporary")? 2. When did Adult Contemporary airplay (under whatever name) began counting toward the Hot 100? |
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ss8
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Post by ss8 on Apr 23, 2015 23:03:28 GMT -5
^ It would actually be a LOT more clean cut if Bruno or Ronson (but esp. Bruno) had a new follow up song out. Most of the mega multi week #1s did have smash or semi smash follow ups (OSD, IGF/BBP and IWALY and I'm sure a few more). Even though Happy and BL had lackluster follow ups, point is, radio 'instantly' was on them by default re: of how good or bad they were or ended up charting and most def. negatively affected the previous songs. W/ SYA and UF its much more difficult to tell. There's no way of knowing if (still) up and coming airplay smashes like Earned It wouldn't have even gotten *more spins if SYA didnt come out. As we've all said for weeks, the ONLY song prior to SYA that was a threat was/is EI and it's looking like the only song now that will push UF out of the top 2 (possibly next week).
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Post by Libra on Apr 24, 2015 4:03:21 GMT -5
jenglisbe - Don't have an answer to #2, though 7/17/1993 when monitored airplay was installed for the AC chart would be my best guess. As to #1, the best that I can guess without looking is that that chart would've been the predecessor to the one introduced in 1996. There'd be a bit of precedence to this being the case, in the form of the Rhythmic chart. I can explain more about that later on - but right now it's late, and I'm up FAR too late, so for now I'll have to leave it at that.
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Hot AC Archiver
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Apr 24, 2015 7:37:46 GMT -5
Top 40/Adult = Adult Pop Songs (Mediabase Hot AC). Even though they apparently recognized it as a format in that article from 1993, I don't think BB had an "official" chart for the Top/40 Adult prior to the 1996 chart mentioned earlier. Test charts for Adult Top 40 began in 1995 ( www.billboard.com/biz/charts/1995-10-07/hot-adult-40-tracks ). Top 40/Mainstream and Top 40/Rhythm-Crossover received their own charts in October 1992. AC stations contributed to the Hot 100 on 7/17/93. Radio & Records published their first Hot AC chart on 4/22/94. |
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 24, 2015 9:38:22 GMT -5
This was posted in the Mariah thread, but it shows that as of 1999 there were still unmonitored stations counting toward the Hot 100 - and they were the difference in "Heartbreaker" dropping from #1 and being replaced by "Smooth."  |
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Post by allow that on Apr 24, 2015 10:51:21 GMT -5
^ "The First Night" by Brandy.   |
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Post by ry4n on Apr 24, 2015 10:54:43 GMT -5
Billboard still making them typos 16 years ago  |
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 24, 2015 11:06:32 GMT -5
Ha, not sure if this is a typo too ;) but the Hot 100 Singles Spotlight for the November 29, 1997 issue gives us insight into how airplay-only singles would have done at the time. "Tubthumping" was #1 on Hot 100 Airplay that week, and it had a 12-inch vinyl single that allowed it to chart. It was #6 on the Hot 100 that week with minimal sales.
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Post by 85la on Apr 24, 2015 15:15:16 GMT -5
I'm still hella confused about the "Top 40 Radio Monitor" and the "Hot 100 Airplay". What was the difference between the two, and which one (or was it both?) counted towards the main Hot 100 Singles chart before the July, 1993 change?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 24, 2015 15:39:15 GMT -5
I'm still hella confused about the "Top 40 Radio Monitor" and the "Hot 100 Airplay". What was the difference between the two, and which one (or was it both?) counted towards the main Hot 100 Singles chart before the July, 1993 change? "Hot 100 Airplay" didn't exist as a chart in the early '90s, or at least it wasn't published. "Top 40 Radio Monitor" was the airplay chart published in Billboard, and it was the one used for the Hot 100. There were apparently some small market stations that weren't covered by BDS (and weren't part of the "Top 40 Radio Monitor" chart) that also contributed to the Hot 100. Ex post facto, apparently Billboard has gone back and created a "Hot 100 Airplay" chart for those years, even though it didn't apparently exist officially at the time. Hopefully someone can shed more light on what was used to create that chart. |
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Post by renfield75 on Apr 24, 2015 15:55:37 GMT -5
Ha, not sure if this is a typo too ;) but the Hot 100 Singles Spotlight for the November 29, 1997 issue gives us insight into how airplay-only singles would have done at the time. "Tubthumping" was #1 on Hot 100 Airplay that week, and it had a 12-inch vinyl single that allowed it to chart. It was #6 on the Hot 100 that week with minimal sales. Interesting. People think all those huge airplay smashes from the late 90s would have topped the Hot 100 had the '98 conversion happened sooner, but I don't think that's the case. Don't Speak, Torn, Fly, Iris---they all would have had big airplay numbers but zero sales. That's got nothing to do with Billboard policy, it's the fact that labels weren't releasing singles. Based on the big numbers "Tragic Kingdom" did I would assume that "Don't Speak" would have been a big seller and topped the Hot 100 if it had been commercially released...but it wasn't, so we'll never really know. Without sales, I'm not sure it could have dethroned "Un-Break My Heart". Toni had solid sales and was no slouch in airplay itself, so No Doubt likely wouldn't have been #1 even if Billboard had made the switch sooner. |
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Hot AC Archiver
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Apr 24, 2015 16:15:53 GMT -5
I'm still hella confused about the "Top 40 Radio Monitor" and the "Hot 100 Airplay". What was the difference between the two, and which one (or was it both?) counted towards the main Hot 100 Singles chart before the July, 1993 change? The original Hot 100 Airplay chart was based on reports from radio stations. In December 1990, BB debuted the Top 40 Radio Monitor, which was based on BDS detections via computer. From December 1990 to November 23, 1991, these charts coexisted, but the Top 40 Radio Monitor was not used for the Hot 100. On November 30, 1991, the old Hot 100 Airplay chart was discontinued. The Top 40 Radio Monitor became the airplay component of the Hot 100. In 1993, BB expanded the panel of the airplay chart, and renamed the Top 40 Radio Monitor to Hot 100 Airplay. Below is an example from 1991, where you can see how both airplay charts coexisted.  upload image online |
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Post by Libra on Apr 24, 2015 16:50:52 GMT -5
"Hot 100 Airplay" didn't exist as a chart in the early '90s, or at least it wasn't published. Incorrect. As I said above, October 20, 1984 is the week where it was first published. It likely existed even before that, only as an internal chart (they'd have had to compile that airplay data somehow!). The published chart went down to 30 from then until the week of May 31, 1986, when it expanded to 40. Hot AC Archiver filled in the rest (chart co-existed with Top 40 Radio Monitor from 12/8/90-11/23/91, Radio Monitor became the airplay chart counted for the Hot 100 on 11/30/91). Billboard's "official" history seems to count the Radio Monitor as the official airplay chart for 1991 (for 12/8/90-11/23/91), but doing that is revising the history, because that's saying that RM is what counted for 1991 - and it wasn't. |
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Post by Future Captain on Apr 24, 2015 17:47:15 GMT -5
How can you find those old articles?
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Post by crystalphnx on Apr 24, 2015 18:09:48 GMT -5
How can you find those old articles? I've had good luck using Google Books. They don't have every issue ever, but still a very nice selection. |
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 24, 2015 18:40:54 GMT -5
"Hot 100 Airplay" didn't exist as a chart in the early '90s, or at least it wasn't published. Incorrect. As I said above, October 20, 1984 is the week where it was first published. It likely existed even before that, only as an internal chart (they'd have had to compile that airplay data somehow!). The published chart went down to 30 from then until the week of May 31, 1986, when it expanded to 40. Hot AC Archiver filled in the rest (chart co-existed with Top 40 Radio Monitor from 12/8/90-11/23/91, Radio Monitor became the airplay chart counted for the Hot 100 on 11/30/91). Billboard's "official" history seems to count the Radio Monitor as the official airplay chart for 1991 (for 12/8/90-11/23/91), but doing that is revising the history, because that's saying that RM is what counted for 1991 - and it wasn't. Well, 1984 isn't the early '90s. I was referring more to what Hot AC Archiver posted about the "Top 40 Monitor" becoming the chart used for the Hot 100 starting in late 1991 and the "Hot 100 Airplay" chart from that time being eliminated. Because "Top 40 Monitor" was used in 1992, 1993, etc. I consider that "early '90s." I'm still hella confused about the "Top 40 Radio Monitor" and the "Hot 100 Airplay". What was the difference between the two, and which one (or was it both?) counted towards the main Hot 100 Singles chart before the July, 1993 change? The original Hot 100 Airplay chart was based on reports from radio stations. In December 1990, BB debuted the Top 40 Radio Monitor, which was based on BDS detections via computer. From December 1990 to November 23, 1991, these charts coexisted, but the Top 40 Radio Monitor was not used for the Hot 100. On November 30, 1991, the old Hot 100 Airplay chart was discontinued. The Top 40 Radio Monitor became the airplay component of the Hot 100. In 1993, BB expanded the panel of the airplay chart, and renamed the Top 40 Radio Monitor to Hot 100 Airplay. Below is an example from 1991, where you can see how both airplay charts coexisted. upload image onlineIt's interesting how different those two airplay charts are in terms of the specific songs and positions, and it's also interesting how big some of the falls in sales are ("One More Try" fell 1-10, "Get Here" fell 2-15, "This House" fell 4-12). |
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Post by imbondz on Apr 24, 2015 18:51:54 GMT -5
Ha, not sure if this is a typo too ;) but the Hot 100 Singles Spotlight for the November 29, 1997 issue gives us insight into how airplay-only singles would have done at the time. "Tubthumping" was #1 on Hot 100 Airplay that week, and it had a 12-inch vinyl single that allowed it to chart. It was #6 on the Hot 100 that week with minimal sales. Interesting. People think all those huge airplay smashes from the late 90s would have topped the Hot 100 had the '98 conversion happened sooner, but I don't think that's the case. Don't Speak, Torn, Fly, Iris---they all would have had big airplay numbers but zero sales. That's got nothing to do with Billboard policy, it's the fact that labels weren't releasing singles. Based on the big numbers "Tragic Kingdom" did I would assume that "Don't Speak" would have been a big seller and topped the Hot 100 if it had been commercially released...but it wasn't, so we'll never really know. Without sales, I'm not sure it could have dethroned "Un-Break My Heart". Toni had solid sales and was no slouch in airplay itself, so No Doubt likely wouldn't have been #1 even if Billboard had made the switch sooner. But the data is probably somewhere. If we had all the AirPlay data back then, couldn't we figure out if a song would have went to #1? Maybe not 100% accurate but close enough. I don't care what anyone says, both Don't Speak and Iris would have gone to #1 if billboard didn't have the sales thing. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 24, 2015 19:15:14 GMT -5
Interesting. People think all those huge airplay smashes from the late 90s would have topped the Hot 100 had the '98 conversion happened sooner, but I don't think that's the case. Don't Speak, Torn, Fly, Iris---they all would have had big airplay numbers but zero sales. That's got nothing to do with Billboard policy, it's the fact that labels weren't releasing singles. Based on the big numbers "Tragic Kingdom" did I would assume that "Don't Speak" would have been a big seller and topped the Hot 100 if it had been commercially released...but it wasn't, so we'll never really know. Without sales, I'm not sure it could have dethroned "Un-Break My Heart". Toni had solid sales and was no slouch in airplay itself, so No Doubt likely wouldn't have been #1 even if Billboard had made the switch sooner. But the data is probably somewhere. If we had all the AirPlay data back then, couldn't we figure out if a song would have went to #1? Maybe not 100% accurate but close enough. I don't care what anyone says, both Don't Speak and Iris would have gone to #1 if billboard didn't have the sales thing. Based on what? |
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