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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 19, 2016 18:07:32 GMT -5
Ok Iβm going around in circles on this but I am actually thinking that the jailkeeper wonβt die if they target the PGO. The role pm found here states that it wonβt prevent the PGO from arming themselves and this one here states they will role block. This page also states:
Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
So in that case, wouldnβt the target be the jailkeeper themselves in which case they would not die from the PGO bullet? Now, they canβt stop the PGO from arming themselves so if Compulsive Visitors also target the PGO then they will die. But Iβm thinking the jailkeeper would actually protect itself. Does that make sense or am I truly running myself in circles here?
But then also where I am unsure is whether the NK would be blocked if the jailkeeper managed to target a PGO. I cannot figure that part out.
Also, Max and Libra have been super quiet for like 24 hours - well Libra has been mute actually. Where are you guys?
I don't have my vote on anyone so for now, Vote: Max because Libra already has two votes on him (I think Narwhals vote actually counts this time).
Unfortunately, I work 9-5 so my time during the day will probably be limited. :( LUCKILY though, long weekend after tomorrow so I will be available for that! I did mention in my post above about my thoughts regarding the jailkeeper based on the link I had. In it, it says So, if a PGO performs an active action (ie. a night kill), it doesn't go through. But it does make the point of saying even when jailkept, they can still arm themselves. And as it says under the PGO spot: So, a jailkeep action would count as a successful target I guess.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 19, 2016 18:10:11 GMT -5
If JK targets PGO while PGO is armed, he's #DEAD as the PGO kills whoever visited him (JK targeting PGO would count as visiting). Factional kill would also go unblocked as a consequence if that scum member is the one to do the killing. Actually, this makes sense. The factional kill could be carried out under the assumption that as soon as the Jailkeeper steps onto the property of Paranoid Gun Owner, he dead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 18:19:50 GMT -5
Ok, so completely ignoring all the discussion so far, I'm using this page as our reference: wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Maintaining_Law,_Order_and_Shallow_Relationships So, we have two 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owners as our scum team. As per normal, they send in their one NK, but they also have the ability to arm themselves to kill anyone who visits them on one particular night for any reason. Ok. Understood. We have a cop. We know how that works. We have a jailkeeper, who protects and prevents another player from doing anything. So, my interpretation of this is, hypothetically, the jailkeeper could protect one of the scum. If that scum sends in a NK, it doesn't go through. If that scum arms themselves, the jailkeeper dies? If the scum does both, the NK doesn't go through but the jailkeeper dies? My guess is, if a jailkeeper and someone else performs a night action on the same scum, who also happens to be armed, they both die. Compulsive visitor. This is a stressful role to have. lol. Like russian roulette. So... pardon me if all of this has already been established. I wanted to kind of clear it out for myself first. Who put a comma in that webpage, lol? Here is a direct link: bit.ly/1OCs2J1thanks, This helped me better understand what the jailkeeper does.
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 18:25:39 GMT -5
Yeah, actually I guess that's more clear-cut, Max and Az. I was getting stuck on the part where I was thinking the jailkeeper essentially auto-protects given the order of actions but it looks like the PGO trumps the jailkeeper?
Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
But I am probably also a victim of wishful thinking as Cynthia had been before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 18:52:57 GMT -5
*shrug* it's an open setup
@mod: will the Jailkeeper die if they target a paranoid gun owner?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 18:56:15 GMT -5
Anyway, much as I appreciate the willingness to help the Jailkeeper understand their role, they can probably just PM a mod about it. I'm not entirely sure how much this matters to anyone else right now.
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on May 19, 2016 18:59:13 GMT -5
Ehh; it got brought up, and you did contribute to that line of discussion, which means on some level it was of interest to you. Meanwhile, we have stragglers. Vote: PopstopShow yourself, Canuck~
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Post by josh on May 19, 2016 19:28:57 GMT -5
#Mod: I'm not sure lol. I was just hoping that it wouldn't happen and I wouldn't have to think of it. But looking at Natural Action Resolution, it seems like jailkeeping would happen prior to arming, so the arming would be prevented from occurring in the first place. I'll see what Zebra has to say about it, though, before making anything official.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 19:49:52 GMT -5
#Mod: I'm not sure lol./b] SMH But at least we know for sure now to not debate what would happen lol
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Post by josh on May 19, 2016 19:55:56 GMT -5
In previous games I've modded, I've spent forever debating internally about things like this only for the situations never to occur, so I've decided it's best to just not worry about it unless it looks like it's actually going to happen.
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Zeebz
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Post by Zeebz on May 19, 2016 19:59:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it would simply be best if we just worried about it in the event that it occurred. :)
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on May 19, 2016 20:26:21 GMT -5
Having caught up on the stuff that happened since I last posted, I learned that everybody who stopped by has read the setup. Cool. Based on the way the role PMs were written in the linked wiki of this game type, it seems pretty clear which actions resolve themselves when, but of course, our own fair mods could have altered the PMs to suit their own needs and have whatever discretion they like and have admitted to holding onto that prerogative, so I think we can all safely stop worrying about the mechanics now, yeah? Albie , I don't recall us playing any Mafia together in the past. Which game(s) did you play previously?
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 20:40:46 GMT -5
Hi WotUNeed! Indeed we haven't played together until now. I've gotten into this only in the last year or so. My first game was Identity Mafia last fall which was hosted by Cynthia. zebra and I were the winning scum team for that one. I also played Kunt's Tutorial mafia in the winter, I believe it was, and I was town and lost.
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popstop
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Post by popstop on May 19, 2016 22:22:38 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I am so pleased to see I was so missed I just realized I haven't played in a game with alberto either; I was in the green room for both of those games. Hi Albie RVS is always such an annoying time of the game and I feel like I always stumble through this part, but I like what Cynthia brought to the table last game in at least getting a convo going about how to go about selecting a lynch target. Basically, in absence of any information, what are strengths/weaknesses of which you are already aware with the people in this game? For example, Max often lasts to the bitter end of the game and I think it's because he tends to waver and be non-committal and doesn't have a lot of strong opinions, which works for either mafia or town. And Matt as town - his heart in the right place, but he tends to direct his focus on one theory too long and doesn't consider different angles. Cynthia is often scattered at the beginning, but sharpens with each day (Pizza Boy notwithstanding). WotUNeed is highly analytical, but I've never seen him as mafia so I have no idea what that looks like. Az is often overly paranoid, even as town, which has made him an easy dogpile target in the past. There are some people that I just never seem to be able to get a good read - luckily, two of them are modding this game so I don't have to deal with that Libra is another one that I think is tricky to read. The rest of you I just haven't played with. I don't think I've voted yet! I was too busy practicing downward dog. While the set-up is interesting and I'm glad we're establishing what the roles mean, I'd rather dwell less on that because I've always found it's easy for mafia to hide in that conversation. They can participate without revealing any information that might come back to bite them - I've used that technique myself when I was mafia. Anyhow, Cynthia, Kunt, narwhals wrote extensively on the set-up and then Max jumps in late in the game to talk more set-up, so for that reason Vote: Max P.S. Also, when are you going to stop being Rose? P.S.S. Look, I cut my hair
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 19, 2016 22:41:31 GMT -5
The rest of you I just haven't played with. Lies We've played together before. In josh's God Redacted Mafia. I even hammered you on D2. And you don't remember. I am hurt :'(
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popstop
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Post by popstop on May 19, 2016 22:59:00 GMT -5
The rest of you I just haven't played with. Lies We've played together before. In josh's God Redacted Mafia. I even hammered you on D2. And you don't remember. I am hurt :'( Oh, you were going by countryrocks then, so it didn't click. Thank you for finally hammering in that game. Jesus, it took forever for that to happen. Still don't remember much about your playing. :/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 23:07:34 GMT -5
volte: WotUNeed
Totally not an OMGUS ego thing lol because I don't technically disagree with you basically expanding on something I already said, but what would you have us talk about, then? First post in 24 hours and it's not a lot. At least the circle-jerking about the setup is something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 23:08:19 GMT -5
vote: WotUNeed
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Post by josh on May 19, 2016 23:18:39 GMT -5
It is Day 1.Deadline has been set for 05/23/2016 at 11:59:59 PM ET. It takes 6/10 votes to lynch! Day 1 Vote Count 4:Albie: LBTrocks Libra: WotUNeed, Narwhals Max: Albie, Popstop Popstop: Cynthia, Az WotUNeed: Kunt Not Voting: Libra, Max #Mod: I'll stop being *so* picky about vote formatting now..
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Albie
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Post by Albie on May 19, 2016 23:20:40 GMT -5
Josh is drunk
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 23:26:08 GMT -5
Am I voteless or some shit? My votes aren't counting.
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LBTrocks
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Post by LBTrocks on May 19, 2016 23:29:05 GMT -5
Am I voteless or some s**t? My votes aren't counting. Is it because you didn't capitalize the V in Vote? idk
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Libra
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Post by Libra on May 20, 2016 1:28:29 GMT -5
Well shit, this started?
Dammit - I have to be up in about 5 & 1/2 hours and then I'm going to be busy for a good part of the day. So I won't be back around again until probably tomorrow (well, Friday) evening.
Sorry! :(
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 1:37:30 GMT -5
Good news everyone! Bayonetta WASN'T completely gutted in the most recent smash bros balance patch!
Oh and also I got a grownup job yay. With my own office!
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on May 20, 2016 2:11:49 GMT -5
I'm counting on a meaningful contribution once you're able to Libra, otherwise the fire is #lit under your thieving political scummy ass (speaking flavour of course) Vote: Libra
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on May 20, 2016 4:47:34 GMT -5
My first game was Identity Mafia last fall which was hosted by Cynthia. zebra and I were the winning scum team for that one. I also played Kunt's Tutorial mafia in the winter, I believe it was, and I was town and lost. Thank you. I'll try to skim through those when I have time (probably Sat or Sun). what would you have us talk about, then? <shrug> I'm not part of the anti-RVS group. Or even RQS or whatever else people use to open games. Not even saying it's useless to establish some mechanics; just that allowing that to be the main conversation leaves little data to analyze as the game progresses. That said, this setup does allow for some pro-Town coordination amongst players (specifically, amongst the compulsive visitors) for risk mitigation. It's not the worst idea to develop a visitation plan for the night, though that's only useful if everyone agrees to follow it and understands that four players then won't do so.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 20, 2016 5:07:23 GMT -5
Just checking in quickly when I should be getting ready for work so if I miss the bus.... I'll be late but will have more time to hang out here. Will be on after work this evening. Just wanted to comment/ask about this coordination. How would it work? Or how could we organize it without knowing who's a visitor? I think at this point we just assume everyone is a visitor by default and work backwards from there, since in this game, visitor is our regular townie. So, do we actually make an organized list that A has to visit B, B visit C, etc, etc, and then watch what happens under the assumption that scum would likely not follow those instructions? But, as I said last game, if we go under assumption that everyone is scum unless proven otherwise - does that change our strategy? Of course, I think I was scum last game when I said that, but I do genuinely think it's a good frame of mind to go by.
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on May 20, 2016 6:53:53 GMT -5
do we actually make an organized list that A has to visit B, B visit C Without going too in depth at this point, that was the basic structure I had in mind, yes. As much as I hate to have to eat crow this early in the game, though, I just realized that the answer to the question of how town can best coordinate visitation changes dramatically based on... well... how the mods choose to resolve a jailkeeper targeting armed scum. @mod: Any chance you'll make an advance call about whether the jailkeeper successfully prevents the kills of armed scum?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 11:07:27 GMT -5
WotUNeed I'm not sure why the mod would as it would confirm a player to be town. If he protects someone and the mod confirms that a bullet was wasted, then the Jailkeeper would then have a confirmed townie. I'd also like you to expand on why you think coordinating visits is a good idea. Cynthia and I weighed pros and cons a bit earlier, so anything you could expand on may be beneficial.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 11:10:55 GMT -5
I'm counting on a meaningful contribution once you're able to Libra, otherwise the fire is #lit under your thieving political scummy ass (speaking flavour of course) Vote: LibraLibra never flavor claimed? Not in thread, anyway. Maybe in your scum QT. Vote: Az
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