Taylor Swift – Lover

[Mayman]

May 23, 2020 19:04:25 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

May 23, 2020 19:00:38 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Nice! Taylor had a great debut, but in the long run did not perform as well as her piers like Ariana, Billie, and Post Malone. None of the 4 singles were huge hits.

I just don't think you understand today's music landscape. It shows that I'm correct if you actually think Taylor is the biggest pop star right now.

We can agree to disagree, but I hope to God it is released so I can prove you wrong with stats and facts, and not just opinion.

Alright! Can't wait to see these mediocre stats if it's released!

I gave you facts but you chose to ignore them with a useless comment.

[kimberly]

there's Camila Cabello thread levels of delusion going on here. Taylor Swift is an album artist, and her fans are dedicated and always show up. But that is exactly why "ME!" and "You Need To Calm Down" weren't hits: they didn't resonate with the general public. "Lover" did a little bit better, but not by much. All of the singles lacked longevity. "Cruel Summer" is an album track beloved by fans, and already has more than 100M streams, so if it were to become an official single, it'll already be at a disadvantage because the song has been heard that many times prior to release. Add to this my personal opinion that "Cruel Summer" isn't any better than "Lover," and definitely not a highlight on its parent album, I don't see the general public being interested. Even if there was a remix, I don't see it outperforming its debut week on the Hot 100. It would probably end up mimicking "The Man"s current run on the Hot 100.

Taylor is smart (way smarter than her fans), and I am doubtful she would pour cash into a single one year after the album release. I can see her doing a live performance video, or something of the sort as a gift to her fans, but not a proper single push. Truth is, however big you may be, post-album singles in the streaming era are not realistic. That's why Ariana moved on from TUN so quickly after "break up with your girlfriend," why "bad guy" didn't have a follow-up smash on the album, and why Post Malone couldn't launch a single after "Circles." There's no way Taylor will change that, especially when she has been in a decline commercially. (It's hard to follow up an era as humongous as 1989.)

[mikerivera]

Just heard Cruel Summer on the radio again. Idk if it’s being discreetly pushed or if 106.1 in Dallas wants it to be a single as badly as the rest of us, but either way, I’m staying optimistic.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Lol "You Need To Calm Down" is her most-streamed single since "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" and was certainly more successful than "Lover" (which was pushed a lot more aggressively, might I add). It is an indisputable hit (no delusional thinking going on there in saying that either). Not everything has to hit the top or spend a billion weeks in the top 10 to be considered a hit. Was it huge? No. But a hit? Absolutely. It had pretty great streaming longevity as well (staying within the top 200 on Spotify up until about a month ago).

I don't know why people always like to discredit that song. lol

[kimberly]

May 23, 2020 22:40:54 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Lol "You Need To Calm Down" is her most-streamed single since "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" and was certainly more successful than "Lover" (which was pushed a lot more aggressively, might I add). It is an indisputable hit (no delusional thinking going on there in saying that either). Not everything has to hit the top or spend a billion weeks in the top 10 to be considered a hit. Was it huge? No. But a hit? Absolutely. It had pretty great streaming longevity as well (staying within the top 200 on Spotify up until about a month ago).

I don't know why people always like to discredit that song. lol

"ME!" and "YNTCD" both had inorganic radio updates that helped them. "Lover" organically stayed afloat for months on airplay.

Despite being a #2 hit, having 8475930 cameos in its music video, and heavy push up the radio charts, "YNTCD" is streamed only slightly more than "Lover" on Spotify with a 20M difference there, and a 40M difference on global YouTube numbers. "Lover" stayed on pop radio 3 weeks longer than "YNTCD" despite peaking 5 spots lower, and peaked higher on streaming platforms. People liked it more. That's all I meant.

[ificanthaveyou]

May 23, 2020 22:40:54 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Lol "You Need To Calm Down" is her most-streamed single since "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" and was certainly more successful than "Lover" (which was pushed a lot more aggressively, might I add). It is an indisputable hit (no delusional thinking going on there in saying that either). Not everything has to hit the top or spend a billion weeks in the top 10 to be considered a hit. Was it huge? No. But a hit? Absolutely. It had pretty great streaming longevity as well (staying within the top 200 on Spotify up until about a month ago).

I don't know why people always like to discredit that song. lol

And the thing about YNTCD and The Man is they both had messages that half of America doesn’t support or doesn’t feel comfortable with because their bigots. The gay pride in Calm Down and the feminism in The Man was likely a turn off for the conservative America that consumes a ton of music.

Cruel Summer is a great pop song, but doesn’t try to deliver anything else.

[mikerivera]

May 23, 2020 23:04:47 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

May 23, 2020 22:40:54 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Lol "You Need To Calm Down" is her most-streamed single since "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" and was certainly more successful than "Lover" (which was pushed a lot more aggressively, might I add). It is an indisputable hit (no delusional thinking going on there in saying that either). Not everything has to hit the top or spend a billion weeks in the top 10 to be considered a hit. Was it huge? No. But a hit? Absolutely. It had pretty great streaming longevity as well (staying within the top 200 on Spotify up until about a month ago).

I don't know why people always like to discredit that song. lol

And the thing about YNTCD and The Man is they both had messages that half of America doesn’t support or doesn’t feel comfortable with because their bigots. The gay pride in Calm Down and the feminism in The Man was likely a turn off for the conservative America that consumes a ton of music.

Cruel Summer is a great pop song, but doesn’t try to deliver anything else.

Or people may not have liked them for other reasons. You can like the message a song is saying, but think the singer is doing a poor job of presenting that message. And I’ve heard a lot of people saying that regarding those two songs. It’s also possible the sound doesn’t appeal to a wide audience (especially for The Man)

[👑 Eloquent ™]

May 23, 2020 23:03:08 GMT -5 kimberly said:

May 23, 2020 22:40:54 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Lol "You Need To Calm Down" is her most-streamed single since "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" and was certainly more successful than "Lover" (which was pushed a lot more aggressively, might I add). It is an indisputable hit (no delusional thinking going on there in saying that either). Not everything has to hit the top or spend a billion weeks in the top 10 to be considered a hit. Was it huge? No. But a hit? Absolutely. It had pretty great streaming longevity as well (staying within the top 200 on Spotify up until about a month ago).

I don't know why people always like to discredit that song. lol

"ME!" and "YNTCD" both had inorganic radio updates that helped them. "Lover" organically stayed afloat for months on airplay.

Despite being a #2 hit, having 8475930 cameos in its music video, and heavy push up the radio charts, "YNTCD" is streamed only slightly more than "Lover" on Spotify with a 20M difference there, and a 40M difference on global YouTube numbers. "Lover" stayed on pop radio 3 weeks longer than "YNTCD" despite peaking 5 spots lower, and peaked higher on streaming platforms. People liked it more. That's all I meant.

According to Kworb "You Need To Calm Down" has 336 million streams on Spotify. "Lover" has 240 million (the Sean remix included). Aside from this, she went all out for the promo for "Lover" (multiple high-profile performances, a high-profile remix etc), she was much more aggressive when pushing "Lover". I think had "You Need To Calm Down" peaked a bit higher (top 5) on radio, this wouldn't even be a discussion (which shows how much unnecessary importance people place on radio, arguably the most easily manipulated metric of them all). Let's not also forget "Lover" logged in a few weeks on pop radio during the "freeze " where pretty much every song on the chart lasted a bit longer due to that suspension. And why are we minimizing the fact that "You Need To Calm Down" not only was the bigger streaming hit, but that it outlasted "Lover" on Spotify (still charting long after Lover had come and gone). I mean, to me, it feels much weirder that people are saying the song wasn't a hit than those saying it is. It is certainly the biggest single of the Lover era.

[MissAmericana]

May 24, 2020 13:44:06 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

May 23, 2020 23:03:08 GMT -5 kimberly said:

"ME!" and "YNTCD" both had inorganic radio updates that helped them. "Lover" organically stayed afloat for months on airplay.

Despite being a #2 hit, having 8475930 cameos in its music video, and heavy push up the radio charts, "YNTCD" is streamed only slightly more than "Lover" on Spotify with a 20M difference there, and a 40M difference on global YouTube numbers. "Lover" stayed on pop radio 3 weeks longer than "YNTCD" despite peaking 5 spots lower, and peaked higher on streaming platforms. People liked it more. That's all I meant.

According to Kworb "You Need To Calm Down" has 336 million streams on Spotify. "Lover" has 240 million (the Sean remix included).

I'm not sure why some people still use Kworb to track Spotify streams. Spotify is a good way to track Spotify streams. Anyways, my point is that "You Need to Calm Down" has 395 million streams and "Lover" has 379 million streams on Spotify. This is with all versions combined for both songs. They're practically neck and neck.

[deepston]

May 23, 2020 23:03:08 GMT -5 kimberly said:

May 23, 2020 22:40:54 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Lol "You Need To Calm Down" is her most-streamed single since "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" and was certainly more successful than "Lover" (which was pushed a lot more aggressively, might I add). It is an indisputable hit (no delusional thinking going on there in saying that either). Not everything has to hit the top or spend a billion weeks in the top 10 to be considered a hit. Was it huge? No. But a hit? Absolutely. It had pretty great streaming longevity as well (staying within the top 200 on Spotify up until about a month ago).

I don't know why people always like to discredit that song. lol

"ME!" and "YNTCD" both had inorganic radio updates that helped them. "Lover" organically stayed afloat for months on airplay.

Despite being a #2 hit, having 8475930 cameos in its music video, and heavy push up the radio charts, "YNTCD" is streamed only slightly more than "Lover" on Spotify with a 20M difference there, and a 40M difference on global YouTube numbers. "Lover" stayed on pop radio 3 weeks longer than "YNTCD" despite peaking 5 spots lower, and peaked higher on streaming platforms. People liked it more. That's all I meant.

"Lover" having less promo than YNTCD is... questionable. And YNTCD did not have an inorganic radio run. It was dropped once the callouts were revealed on Pop and the callouts on HAC were stellar, hence why it was pushed to #1.

[kimberly]

May 24, 2020 15:07:50 GMT -5 deepston said:

May 23, 2020 23:03:08 GMT -5 kimberly said:

"ME!" and "YNTCD" both had inorganic radio updates that helped them. "Lover" organically stayed afloat for months on airplay.

Despite being a #2 hit, having 8475930 cameos in its music video, and heavy push up the radio charts, "YNTCD" is streamed only slightly more than "Lover" on Spotify with a 20M difference there, and a 40M difference on global YouTube numbers. "Lover" stayed on pop radio 3 weeks longer than "YNTCD" despite peaking 5 spots lower, and peaked higher on streaming platforms. People liked it more. That's all I meant.

"Lover" having less promo than YNTCD is... questionable. And YNTCD did not have an inorganic radio run. It was dropped once the callouts were revealed on Pop and the callouts on HAC were stellar, hence why it was pushed to #1.

"Lover" had an SNL performance, an AMA performance and a VMA performance (where YNTCD was also performed), I don't think it got any other US TV promo. "YNTCD" was performed on GMA, music video debuted on a morning TV show as well. I don't think there's much difference in TV promo, but every celebrity on earth posted about "YNTCD." "Lover" was a more personal effort.

"YNTCD" was obviously "bigger," it was released prior to the album & its return to #4, for example, coincided with its peak on the radio and album release week. But it didn't click with the public, and no one will remember it more than any other #2 hit of hers. "Lover" got her a SOTY Grammy nomination and will be played at weddings for a long time to come.

Hot 100 runs:

YNTCD: 2 - 13 - 13 - 16 - 15 - 15 - 16 - 18 - 18 - 14 - 4 - 12 - 24 - 21 - 23 - 27 - 28 - 33 - 37 - 52 - 46 - OFF
Lover: 19 - 10 - 23 - 49 - 49 - 44 - 45 - 34 - 37 - 38 - 48 - 43 - 26 - 15 - 19 - 32 - 40 - 48 - 57 - 34 - 36 - 50 - OFF

Radio runs:

YNTCD: 39 - 19 - 14 - 12 - 11 - 10 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 14 - 18 - 27 - 33 - 31 - 36 - OFF 
Lover: 49 - 33 - 25 - 18 - 17 - 18 - 19 - 19 - 18 - 19 - 19 - 16 - 18 - 16 - 14 - 15 - 16 - 14 - 18 - 21 - OFF

[deepston]

I don't particularly like YNTCD. I prefer Lover, so I'm not saying this because I supposedly have a personal bias against the song.

Both received great amounts of promo but Lover got a high-profile remix (even though horrible) and still never managed to take-off.
I'm not even sure what we are questioning here but plenty of people liked YNTCD, at least enough to make it #1 on HAC and support the good radio run you just presented. In this day and age, "Lover"'s promo should have been way more effective, it simply did not click with the GP.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

My only argument was that "YNTCD" was objectively a hit and arguably the most successful single off Lover (for whatever that is worth lol).

[#brayden]

"YNTCD" (and "ME!") was bigger than "Lover." I don't get the argument that the latter was somehow a bigger hit than the former... especially when the former is currently streaming more despite being released earlier. I'd say all three were hits, though.

The only flop was "The Man."

[kimberly]

Taylor Swift produced a cover of her song "Look What You Made Me Do," with vocals from her brother Austin, under a fake band called Jack Leopards and The Dolphin Club.

Produced by Jack Antonoff and Nils Sjöberg.

[mikerivera]

Lover was a bigger hit when it was made by Ed Sheeran and it was called Perfect.

[neverduplicated]

Judging from stats so far, both "Me!" and "YNTCD" were bigger hits than "Lover." However, are we sure "YNTCD" is outstreaming "Lover"? The album version of "Lover" is getting about 100,000 less streams per day on Spotify than "YNTCD", but what about the remix? I'm pretty sure it's still getting a decent number of streams. I'm not sure how many though? Can anyone help? The album version of "Lover" is also currently higher on Apple Music than "YNTCD" in pretty much every country (check kworb for stats), including the US, and that's without the remix added in.

[born]

The "Look What You Made Me Do" cover by Jack Leopards & The Dolphin Club is Top 30 on both the US iTunes and the WW iTunes chart. God her following is insane. That is impact hunny.

[deepston]

May 25, 2020 18:54:37 GMT -5 born said:

The "Look What You Made Me Do" cover by Jack Leopards & The Dolphin Club is Top 30 on both the US iTunes and the WW iTunes chart. God her following is insane. That is impact hunny.

On top of being a stellar cover. Austin Swift really did that.

[MissAmericana]

May 23, 2020 19:00:38 GMT -5 Mayman said:

May 23, 2020 18:51:08 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

She almost had two #1s in Me! and You Need to Calm Down if not for the longest #1 hit of all time in Old Town Road, the album debuted at 679,000 pure album sales and 869,000 units, AND she did not have a ticket bundle.... but you’re trying to tell me she isn’t the biggest pop star in the world?!

The only people that can rival Taylor’s success are Adele and Beyoncé right now, and possibly Rihanna if she ever releases again.

Like I said, Cruel Summer may not top the chart, but it’s a pure pop song without a “message” that will bring a lot of fans back around the same way that Delicate did in Reputation. No one can say for certain what will happen with it, but it’s worth a shot at this point.

Nice! Taylor had a great debut, but in the long run did not perform as well as her piers like Ariana, Billie, and Post Malone. None of the 4 singles were huge hits.

I just don't think you understand today's music landscape. It shows that I'm correct if you actually think Taylor is the biggest pop star right now.

She's done better than Ariana and would be ahead of Post in overall sales if he didn't have Sunflower on his album, so I'm not sure why you're saying that she hasn't done as well as those three. I'll give you Billie though, that was lightning in a bottle.

[kamala 2024 truther]

May 25, 2020 1:51:48 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Taylor Swift produced a cover of her song "Look What You Made Me Do," with vocals from her brother Austin, under a fake band called Jack Leopards and The Dolphin Club.

Produced by Jack Antonoff and Nils Sjöberg.

Ooooh, brother Austin really did THAT. The talent in this family wow.

[suitact]

May 25, 2020 20:20:02 GMT -5 MissAmericana said:

May 23, 2020 19:00:38 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Nice! Taylor had a great debut, but in the long run did not perform as well as her piers like Ariana, Billie, and Post Malone. None of the 4 singles were huge hits.

I just don't think you understand today's music landscape. It shows that I'm correct if you actually think Taylor is the biggest pop star right now.

She's done better than Ariana and would be ahead of Post in overall sales if he didn't have Sunflower on his album, so I'm not sure why you're saying that she hasn't done as well as those three. I'll give you Billie though, that was lightning in a bottle.

Taylor is below Drake, Post Malone, Ariana and Billie in the current pop landscape. She has big debuts because of fanbase. It doesn't mean the GP is checking on her. Lover era 6 weeks total in the top 10 tell you that. If you believe Taylor is the biggest popstar in the world, you are stuck in 2015.

[neverduplicated]

May 26, 2020 12:32:26 GMT -5 suitact said:

May 25, 2020 20:20:02 GMT -5 MissAmericana said:

She's done better than Ariana and would be ahead of Post in overall sales if he didn't have Sunflower on his album, so I'm not sure why you're saying that she hasn't done as well as those three. I'll give you Billie though, that was lightning in a bottle.

Taylor is below Drake, Post Malone, Ariana and Billie in the current pop landscape. She has big debuts because of fanbase. It doesn't mean the GP is checking on her. Lover era 6 weeks total in the top 10 tell you that. If you believe Taylor is the biggest popstar in the world, you are stuck in 2015.

Interesting you should say that when Taylor ranks way above Ariana (54.1m streams vs. 32m streams) and also above Billie (54.1m streams vs. 47.5m streams) in streams in the US this past week (https://www.rollingstone.com/charts/artists/ for receipts). Yes, I know City of Lover concert helped, but Ariana also just released a new single with Biebz. Being big in the pop landscape isn't just about who has the hottest single. Taylor's albums are still being streamed to death which is why she is the #2 most streamed female artist this year in the US behind Billie despite no new album in 9 months. And she's way ahead of Ariana in 2020 streams in the US even with Ariana's biggest era of her career last year.

I also feel, and I know this is just subjective, that out of all the female artists out there today, Taylor has the best chance of continued success for years to come because her entire discography continues to be streamed so heavily. When she releases a new single for a new album era, it will be huge, and hopefully it will stick better than the Lover singles and Taylor will stay winning.

Comparing Taylor to Drake or Post Malone doesn't even make sense because if you look at the charts today, pop music just isn't really in. It's amazing Taylor is still having so much success with pop music, because R&B and hip hop music is dominating so much right now on the singles charts. Yes, there are some exceptions, but few pop artists are having loads of pop hits. You could say Ariana, but her latest offerings have also been very R&B and hip hop influenced.

Also did you miss the memo from IFPI that Taylor was the #1 artist in the world in 2019? That puts her above literally all the other artists.

[suitact]

May 26, 2020 13:03:12 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

May 26, 2020 12:32:26 GMT -5 suitact said:

Taylor is below Drake, Post Malone, Ariana and Billie in the current pop landscape. She has big debuts because of fanbase. It doesn't mean the GP is checking on her. Lover era 6 weeks total in the top 10 tell you that. If you believe Taylor is the biggest popstar in the world, you are stuck in 2015.

Interesting you should say that when Taylor ranks way above Ariana (54.1m streams vs. 32m streams) and also above Billie (54.1m streams vs. 47.5m streams) in streams in the US this past week (https://www.rollingstone.com/charts/artists/ for receipts). Yes, I know City of Lover concert helped, but Ariana also just released a new single with Biebz. Being big in the pop landscape isn't just about who has the hottest single. Taylor's albums are still being streamed to death which is why she is the #2 most streamed female artist this year in the US behind Billie despite no new album in 9 months. And she's way ahead of Ariana in 2020 streams in the US even with Ariana's biggest era of her career last year.

I also feel, and I know this is just subjective, that out of all the female artists out there today, Taylor has the best chance of continued success for years to come because her entire discography continues to be streamed so heavily. When she releases a new single for a new album era, it will be huge, and hopefully it will stick better than the Lover singles and Taylor will stay winning.

Comparing Taylor to Drake or Post Malone doesn't even make sense because if you look at the charts today, pop music just isn't really in. It's amazing Taylor is still having so much success with pop music, because R&B and hip hop music is dominating so much right now on the singles charts. Yes, there are some exceptions, but few pop artists are having loads of pop hits. You could say Ariana, but her latest offerings have also been very R&B and hip hop influenced.

Also did you miss the memo from IFPI that Taylor was the #1 artist in the world in 2019? That puts her above literally all the other artists.

Look, the fact she has a dedicated fanbase willing to spend money and buy her physical packages, giving her commercial success, does not mean her music is more relevant or popular than Ariana's or Billie's. Picking RS weekly stats doesn't tell you much, as it is contaminated with biases like recency of albums or singles, or even the fact they create a new handle when the song is a duet.

Look at total yearly audio+video streams, which represent the way people consume music in 2020. Taylor is below Ariana or Billie even in the US, her strongest market. Let alone the rest of the world. The 2019 numbers are out.

Ariana is gonna have her second n1 in three weeks. And Taylor is still trying to milk a 10 month old album which generated only a barely successful single. One artist is up to date with the new times streaming has brought, the other is still stuck in 2010 relying on the traditional rollout to sell physical copies.

And if hits, number ones and streaming success aren't enough to convince you, check for other indexes like social media engagement, google trends, tiktok tag popularity, etc.

[neverduplicated]

May 26, 2020 14:47:37 GMT -5 suitact said:

May 26, 2020 13:03:12 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Interesting you should say that when Taylor ranks way above Ariana (54.1m streams vs. 32m streams) and also above Billie (54.1m streams vs. 47.5m streams) in streams in the US this past week (https://www.rollingstone.com/charts/artists/ for receipts). Yes, I know City of Lover concert helped, but Ariana also just released a new single with Biebz. Being big in the pop landscape isn't just about who has the hottest single. Taylor's albums are still being streamed to death which is why she is the #2 most streamed female artist this year in the US behind Billie despite no new album in 9 months. And she's way ahead of Ariana in 2020 streams in the US even with Ariana's biggest era of her career last year.

I also feel, and I know this is just subjective, that out of all the female artists out there today, Taylor has the best chance of continued success for years to come because her entire discography continues to be streamed so heavily. When she releases a new single for a new album era, it will be huge, and hopefully it will stick better than the Lover singles and Taylor will stay winning.

Comparing Taylor to Drake or Post Malone doesn't even make sense because if you look at the charts today, pop music just isn't really in. It's amazing Taylor is still having so much success with pop music, because R&B and hip hop music is dominating so much right now on the singles charts. Yes, there are some exceptions, but few pop artists are having loads of pop hits. You could say Ariana, but her latest offerings have also been very R&B and hip hop influenced.

Also did you miss the memo from IFPI that Taylor was the #1 artist in the world in 2019? That puts her above literally all the other artists.

Look, the fact she has a dedicated fanbase willing to spend money and buy her physical packages, giving her commercial success, does not mean her music is more relevant or popular than Ariana's or Billie's. Picking RS weekly stats doesn't tell you much, as it is contaminated with biases like recency of albums or singles, or even the fact they create a new handle when the song is a duet.

Look at total yearly audio+video streams, which represent the way people consume music in 2020. Taylor is below Ariana or Billie even in the US, her strongest market. Let alone the rest of the world. The 2019 numbers are out.

Ariana is gonna have her second n1 in three weeks. And Taylor is still trying to milk a 10 month old album which generated only a barely successful single. One artist is up to date with the new times streaming has brought, the other is still stuck in 2010 relying on the traditional rollout to sell physical copies.

And if hits, number ones and streaming success aren't enough to convince you, check for other indexes like social media engagement, google trends, tiktok tag popularity, etc.

I suppose we aren't exactly arguing the same thing. I agree that Ariana and Billie are hotter artists at the moment, but when considering all the metrics that music consumption is measured by today, Taylor's success is right up there with them, and once again I will cite IFPI #1 artist of 2019 again. Additionally, Bille and Ariana had more streams last year, but their albums were also out for much longer. Taylor has out streamed Ariana this entire year - not sure what numbers you are checking but that's just a fact. She's been ahead all year on Spotify WW with the exception of the past few weeks now that Ariana has released new singles. Taylor's top album (Lover) is outperforming Ariana's (TUN) every week and so her her second top album (1989 vs. Sweetner), and taking sales out of the equation that is still true considering none of these albums sell much on any given week.

Also, sorry everyone for taking up so much space on this topic. I'm not commenting not his anymore. I'm not trying to have a fan war, just stating facts about Taylor's achievements.

[kimberly]

Average # of streams on a Lover track: 121.5 million
Average # of streams on a Thank U, Next track: 349.1 million
Average # of streams on Billie Eilish's album: 390.7 million

[MissAmericana]

at y'all trying to convince people that Taylor is over and nowhere near as successful as Ariana and Billie. Her songs may not have the same longevity (likely due to newer acts being spun heavily by pop when compared to acts that have been around for 10-15 years) but she's got her strengths too. And I'll just leave these two tweets here, just incase you need a little more convincing.

[Kinney]

Also, just this past week:

And the third most followed/streamed female on Spotify, despite the fact that she wasn't on the platform for three years during the biggest album and peak of her career. I believe she was the third or fourth most streamed female on Apple Music as well when they last posted, but don't quote me on that. Second most followed and streamed on Youtube.

All of this streaming success in addition to her gargantuan sustained success in sales.

I think most fans of Taylor would readily agree that her peak is behind her, but to suggest that she isn't competitive with the newest/hottest pop stars is ludicrous. Nearly 15 years into her career and she's still at or near the top consistently.

[pnobelysk]

May 26, 2020 14:47:37 GMT -5 suitact said:

May 26, 2020 13:03:12 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Interesting you should say that when Taylor ranks way above Ariana (54.1m streams vs. 32m streams) and also above Billie (54.1m streams vs. 47.5m streams) in streams in the US this past week (https://www.rollingstone.com/charts/artists/ for receipts). Yes, I know City of Lover concert helped, but Ariana also just released a new single with Biebz. Being big in the pop landscape isn't just about who has the hottest single. Taylor's albums are still being streamed to death which is why she is the #2 most streamed female artist this year in the US behind Billie despite no new album in 9 months. And she's way ahead of Ariana in 2020 streams in the US even with Ariana's biggest era of her career last year.

I also feel, and I know this is just subjective, that out of all the female artists out there today, Taylor has the best chance of continued success for years to come because her entire discography continues to be streamed so heavily. When she releases a new single for a new album era, it will be huge, and hopefully it will stick better than the Lover singles and Taylor will stay winning.

Comparing Taylor to Drake or Post Malone doesn't even make sense because if you look at the charts today, pop music just isn't really in. It's amazing Taylor is still having so much success with pop music, because R&B and hip hop music is dominating so much right now on the singles charts. Yes, there are some exceptions, but few pop artists are having loads of pop hits. You could say Ariana, but her latest offerings have also been very R&B and hip hop influenced.

Also did you miss the memo from IFPI that Taylor was the #1 artist in the world in 2019? That puts her above literally all the other artists.

Look, the fact she has a dedicated fanbase willing to spend money and buy her physical packages, giving her commercial success, does not mean her music is more relevant or popular than Ariana's or Billie's. Picking RS weekly stats doesn't tell you much, as it is contaminated with biases like recency of albums or singles, or even the fact they create a new handle when the song is a duet.

Look at total yearly audio+video streams, which represent the way people consume music in 2020. Taylor is below Ariana or Billie even in the US, her strongest market. Let alone the rest of the world. The 2019 numbers are out.

Ariana is gonna have her second n1 in three weeks. And Taylor is still trying to milk a 10 month old album which generated only a barely successful single. One artist is up to date with the new times streaming has brought, the other is still stuck in 2010 relying on the traditional rollout to sell physical copies.

And if hits, number ones and streaming success aren't enough to convince you, check for other indexes like social media engagement, google trends, tiktok tag popularity, etc.

I don’t have a final opinion on who is more popular right now, the argument is there for either one.


However I don’t think Taylor’s ability to move albums should be used as a negative against her. I’m sure tons of artists would LOVE to sell even have the pure sales Taylor can still manage.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Are we still trying to force the narrative that Taylor Swift is over just because her most recent album didn’t do as well as her most successful album?