Taylor Swift – Lover

[nickd]

May 26, 2020 14:47:37 GMT -5 suitact said:

May 26, 2020 13:03:12 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Interesting you should say that when Taylor ranks way above Ariana (54.1m streams vs. 32m streams) and also above Billie (54.1m streams vs. 47.5m streams) in streams in the US this past week (https://www.rollingstone.com/charts/artists/ for receipts). Yes, I know City of Lover concert helped, but Ariana also just released a new single with Biebz. Being big in the pop landscape isn't just about who has the hottest single. Taylor's albums are still being streamed to death which is why she is the #2 most streamed female artist this year in the US behind Billie despite no new album in 9 months. And she's way ahead of Ariana in 2020 streams in the US even with Ariana's biggest era of her career last year.

I also feel, and I know this is just subjective, that out of all the female artists out there today, Taylor has the best chance of continued success for years to come because her entire discography continues to be streamed so heavily. When she releases a new single for a new album era, it will be huge, and hopefully it will stick better than the Lover singles and Taylor will stay winning.

Comparing Taylor to Drake or Post Malone doesn't even make sense because if you look at the charts today, pop music just isn't really in. It's amazing Taylor is still having so much success with pop music, because R&B and hip hop music is dominating so much right now on the singles charts. Yes, there are some exceptions, but few pop artists are having loads of pop hits. You could say Ariana, but her latest offerings have also been very R&B and hip hop influenced.

Also did you miss the memo from IFPI that Taylor was the #1 artist in the world in 2019? That puts her above literally all the other artists.

Look, the fact she has a dedicated fanbase willing to spend money and buy her physical packages, giving her commercial success, does not mean her music is more relevant or popular than Ariana's or Billie's. Picking RS weekly stats doesn't tell you much, as it is contaminated with biases like recency of albums or singles, or even the fact they create a new handle when the song is a duet.

Look at total yearly audio+video streams, which represent the way people consume music in 2020. Taylor is below Ariana or Billie even in the US, her strongest market. Let alone the rest of the world. The 2019 numbers are out.

Ariana is gonna have her second n1 in three weeks. And Taylor is still trying to milk a 10 month old album which generated only a barely successful single. One artist is up to date with the new times streaming has brought, the other is still stuck in 2010 relying on the traditional rollout to sell physical copies.

And if hits, number ones and streaming success aren't enough to convince you, check for other indexes like social media engagement, google trends, tiktok tag popularity, etc.

Ariana and Billie out-streamed Taylor in 2019 because they released the biggest albums of their career that year, and had huge hits. Taylor has shown that she doesn't even need big hits to be a significant force on the yearly charts, which shows that a large number of people are checking on her. Her album tracks are doing really well too, Lover's album tracks are doing better than Reputation's and Reputation's are doing about as well as Scorpion's last I checked. I don't know why you would have such a problem with using RS weekly stats for Taylor due to "bias of recent releases" either considering the overwhelming major of Taylor's streams are coming from material she released at least 9 months ago. If anything, Billie is the one benefiting from those biases with Everything I Wanted and No Time To Die.

Taylor was the #1 most streamed artist on Amazon in 2019 btw, which is the fastest growing major streaming platform.

The US also isn't really Taylor's strongest market. Depending how you measure "strongest", there's a case to be made for Australia, Canada, China, the Philippines, and even some of the other SE Asian countries being stronger.

Although I have issues with some of Taylor's single choices and promotional choices, I don't really have a problem with her trying to continue promoting albums for a longer period of time. It helps show that her albums are complete projects rather than a few hits + filler and that's something that benefits her even in the streaming age.

Taylor doesn't use social media as much as Billie and Ariana, and has comments turned off on instagram, so I think a lot of the lower engagement has to do with that rather than lack of interest. Her Spotify followers are increasing very significantly though, even though she hasn't released much of consequence since last August unlike many of these other artists

This is follower gains since the start of May.

Billie Eilish: +1,250,598
Ed Sheeran: +1,090,000
Ariana Grande: +792,841
Post Malone: +733,398
Taylor Swift: +703,479
Shawn Mendes: +640,478
Travis Scott: +595,340
Drake: +572,474
Maroon 5: +543,572
Justin Bieber: +501,242
The Weeknd: +421,779
Adele: +401,349
Lady Gaga: 391,352
Dua Lipa: +384,168
Rihanna: +371,092
Doja Cat: +299,048
Harry Styles: +298,864
Beyonce: +275,553
Nicki Minaj: +228,509
Roddy Rich: +220,343
Katy Perry: +215,040
Cardi B: +190,143
Lil Nas X: +149,904
Megan Thee Stallion: +136,263
Tones & I: +116,106

Also Wildest Dreams has gone viral on Tik Tok in the last week despite the fact that the music keeps getting taken down due to copyright (not sure if due to it's Disney, UMG, Big Machine or Taylor). Thanks to that, Wildest Dreams is currently the 2015 peaking female hit with the most daily streams. Love Story also went viral in SE Asia in the last month which has given her a major boost to her overall Youtube streams from the region.

[nickd]

May 26, 2020 18:50:36 GMT -5 Kinney said:

Also, just this past week:

And the third most followed/streamed female on Spotify, despite the fact that she wasn't on the platform for three years during the biggest album and peak of her career. I believe she was the third or fourth most streamed female on Apple Music as well when they last posted, but don't quote me on that.

Second to only Ariana actually, afaik she was ahead of Rihanna on AM as of last update.

[nickd]

For anyone doubting Taylor's streaming power in SE Asia, these are her top 40 metropolitan areas by streams gained in the last 4 weeks on Youtube.

1. Manila - 12,510,000
2. Bangkok - 3,070,000
3. Tokyo - 2,960,000
4. Jakarta - 2,730,000
5. Los Angeles - 2,700,000
6. New York City - 2,690,000
7. Mexico City - 2,500,000
8. Cebu City - 2,490,000
9. Kuala Lumpur - 2,240,000
10. Ho Chi Minh City - 1,920,000
11. Seoul - 1,790,000
12. Sao Paulo - 1,680,000
13. Chicago - 1,650,000
14. London - 1,640,000
15. Singapore - 1,570,000
16. Buenos Aires - 1,490,000
17. San Francisco Bay Area - 1,410,000
18. Hanoi - 1,310,000
19. Angeles-San Fernando (Philippines) - 1,175,000
20. Osaka - 1,145,000
21. Toronto - 1,140,000
22. Davao City - 1,120,000
23. Dallas - 1,085,000
24. Sydney - 1,080,000
25. Delhi - 1,060,000
26. Paris - 1,050,000
27. Istanbul - 1,010,000
28. Lima - 975,000
29. Melbourne - 970,000
30. Taipei - 950,000
31. Hong Kong - 915,000
32. Houston - 910,000
33. Atlanta - 890,000
34. Surabaya - 850,000
35. Mumbai - 780,000
36. Philadelphia - 770,000
37. Boston - 760,000
38. Miami - 710,000
39. Santiago - 690,000
40. Bangalore - 685,000



Cities by region

Southeast Asia - 11
USA/Canada - 11
Latin America - 5
East Asia - 5
South Asia - 3
Europe - 3
Oceania - 2

Kinda crazy that a Filipino city of 3 million that most people have never heard of is streaming Taylor nearly as much as the whole 20 million inhabitant New York metro area, and that Manila is streaming her as much on Youtube as the US East coast states from Georgia to New England combined (including Pennsylvania) which is about 110 million people.

[kimberly]

Taylor Swift isn't over lmao. I think this whole thing started because some people were saying "Cruel Summer" should be a single now because it would smash, and we're just saying that is highly unlikely. To recap:

-"Cruel Summer" is old—already charted in the Top 30 on the Hot 100 and garnered over 110,000,000 streams on Spotify.
-The last single "The Man" was on a similar boat, with a high-budget, creative music video that was Taylor's directorial debut. It failed.
-"Cruel Summer" would have no traditionally high-budget music video & opens with the line "Fever dream high in the quiet of the night you know that I caught it." Not exactly what people want to hear.
-Lover as an era is basically dead. The album gets less than 4 million streams a day on Spotify, and non-singles make up 2.5 million of that. Streaming forces like Ariana, Billie and Post have failed to spark interest in their post-album singles or had to skip the opportunity to push a post-album single. So it doesn't seem likely that Taylor Swift would be able to bring back the post-album single, especially without innovating the concept—which she can, if she wanted to. Still, I don't think "Cruel Summer" would be the choice there.
-My other point was that "Lover" clicked with the public more than the first two singles, and it still stands. The first two singles got horrendous reviews and a lot of backlash, while "Lover" was only praised. People love songwriter Taylor more than the queer baiting, spelling-enthusiast Taylor. I understand that this might be people around me, but the reactions I have seen online, the like-dislike ratios of the songs, airplay longevity, and the Grammy's align with what I was saying.

Taylor Swift is a phenomenal artist and a business mogul. She reinvented ticket sales with her Reputation era. She impacted a lot of good change on streaming platforms with her public criticism. She might be able to bring back post-album singles, but until she does, I don't see how anyone would predict "Cruel Summer" to smash.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

People may call me crazy, but I feel "Look What You Made Me Do" helped open the door to Billie Eilish (only in part of course). With a creepy, dark undertone, spoken/sung verses, etc. Listen to "LWYMMD" and then listen to "Bury A Friend". They both have very similar vibes and I could totally imagine Billie singing on "LWYMMD". Wonder if there was influence there?

[kimberly]

May 27, 2020 0:22:23 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

People may call me crazy, but I feel "Look What You Made Me Do" helped open the door to Billie Eilish (only in part of course). With a creepy, dark undertone, spoken/sung verses, etc. Listen to "LWYMMD" and then listen to "Bury A Friend". They both have very similar vibes and I could totally imagine Billie singing on "LWYMMD". Wonder if there was influence there?

oh absolutely. "You Should See Me in a Crown" reminds me of "LWYMMD" a lot. "bury a friend" less so.

[suitact]

lol, i don't get the defensive answers prompted by my post. I never said she was finished, just that she isn't as hot as Ariana or Billie. Or Post or Drake, who is someone she could beat back in the day. Not anymore.

The thing is whether she will keep being able to generate hype for her albums and be commercially successful as she gets older, with a weakened fanbase and even worse singles performance than Lover. Beyoncé did it, and on top of that also increased her clout and cultural relevancy. I don't know if Lover's branding and sound is a smart way to achieve that going forward.

[Deleted]

May 27, 2020 1:25:04 GMT -5 suitact said:

lol, i don't get the defensive answers prompted by my post. I never said she was finished, just that she isn't as hot as Ariana or Billie. Or Post or Drake, who is someone she could beat back in the day. Not anymore.

The thing is whether she will keep being able to generate hype for her albums and be commercially successful as she gets older, with a weakened fanbase and even worse singles performance than Lover. Beyoncé did it, and on top of that also increased her clout and cultural relevancy. I don't know if Lover's branding and sound is a smart way to achieve that going forward.

Okay so? What's your point? It's funny how it's always her doubters who compare her to the "hottest" artists of the moment or those in their peak. I guess that's the only way to target her commercial performance

Anyways, Taylor is 30. At this point in Beyonce's career she had just released 4 which is less successful than Lover. Taylor has sold more singles, more albums, more concert tickets (Without even doing the SuperBowl once, let alone twice) and has many more streams than her already. She's doing just fine. Only time will clarify your concerns on her future clout and cultural relevancy!

Btw she did "beat" Ariana. For whatever is worth. Taylor moved more units in the US and Globally in 2019 and will likely move more in 2020 too unless she releases (Not that it matters anyways since artists can coexist. Crazy, right?)

Edit - I just looked at your post history.  Why am I not shocked 

[Deleted]

May 26, 2020 23:06:49 GMT -5 nickd said:

May 26, 2020 14:47:37 GMT -5 suitact said:

Look, the fact she has a dedicated fanbase willing to spend money and buy her physical packages, giving her commercial success, does not mean her music is more relevant or popular than Ariana's or Billie's. Picking RS weekly stats doesn't tell you much, as it is contaminated with biases like recency of albums or singles, or even the fact they create a new handle when the song is a duet.

Look at total yearly audio+video streams, which represent the way people consume music in 2020. Taylor is below Ariana or Billie even in the US, her strongest market. Let alone the rest of the world. The 2019 numbers are out.

Ariana is gonna have her second n1 in three weeks. And Taylor is still trying to milk a 10 month old album which generated only a barely successful single. One artist is up to date with the new times streaming has brought, the other is still stuck in 2010 relying on the traditional rollout to sell physical copies.

And if hits, number ones and streaming success aren't enough to convince you, check for other indexes like social media engagement, google trends, tiktok tag popularity, etc.

This is follower gains since the start of May.

Billie Eilish: +1,250,598
Ed Sheeran: +1,090,000
Ariana Grande: +792,841
Post Malone: +733,398
Taylor Swift: +703,479
Shawn Mendes: +640,478
Travis Scott: +595,340
Drake: +572,474
Maroon 5: +543,572
Justin Bieber: +501,242
The Weeknd: +421,779
Adele: +401,349
Lady Gaga: 391,352
Dua Lipa: +384,168
Rihanna: +371,092
Doja Cat: +299,048
Harry Styles: +298,864
Beyonce: +275,553
Nicki Minaj: +228,509
Roddy Rich: +220,343
Katy Perry: +215,040
Cardi B: +190,143
Lil Nas X: +149,904
Megan Thee Stallion: +136,263
Tones & I: +116,106

One would normally look at such figures and think "This is an artist that is rapidly growing in the streaming era. Watch out for her next album!"


But who are we kidding, right? She's 30 and on her way out 

[Mayman]

May 26, 2020 18:37:58 GMT -5 MissAmericana said:

at y'all trying to convince people that Taylor is over and nowhere near as successful as Ariana and Billie. Her songs may not have the same longevity (likely due to newer acts being spun heavily by pop when compared to acts that have been around for 10-15 years) but she's got her strengths too. And I'll just leave these two tweets here, just incase you need a little more convincing.

That's not what we were saying at all. Also these tweets don't take anything away from what we were saying. I wasn't even talking about the albums success at all.

[Mayman]

May 26, 2020 18:50:36 GMT -5 Kinney said:

Also, just this past week:

And the third most followed/streamed female on Spotify, despite the fact that she wasn't on the platform for three years during the biggest album and peak of her career. I believe she was the third or fourth most streamed female on Apple Music as well when they last posted, but don't quote me on that. Second most followed and streamed on Youtube.

All of this streaming success in addition to her gargantuan sustained success in sales.

I think most fans of Taylor would readily agree that her peak is behind her, but to suggest that she isn't competitive with the newest/hottest pop stars is ludicrous. Nearly 15 years into her career and she's still at or near the top consistently.

I said she wasn't the biggest pop star right now. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[Mayman]

May 27, 2020 3:01:24 GMT -5 @stateofgrace said:

May 27, 2020 1:25:04 GMT -5 suitact said:

lol, i don't get the defensive answers prompted by my post. I never said she was finished, just that she isn't as hot as Ariana or Billie. Or Post or Drake, who is someone she could beat back in the day. Not anymore.

The thing is whether she will keep being able to generate hype for her albums and be commercially successful as she gets older, with a weakened fanbase and even worse singles performance than Lover. Beyoncé did it, and on top of that also increased her clout and cultural relevancy. I don't know if Lover's branding and sound is a smart way to achieve that going forward.

Okay so? What's your point? It's funny how it's always her doubters who compare her to the "hottest" artists of the moment or those in their peak. I guess that's the only way to target her commercial performance

Anyways, Taylor is 30. At this point in Beyonce's career she had just released 4 which is less successful than Lover. Taylor has sold more singles, more albums, more concert tickets (Without even doing the SuperBowl once, let alone twice) and has many more streams than her already. She's doing just fine. Only time will clarify your concerns on her future clout and cultural relevancy!

Btw she did "beat" Ariana. For whatever is worth. Taylor moved more units in the US and Globally in 2019 and will likely move more in 2020 too unless she releases (Not that it matters anyways since artists can coexist. Crazy, right?)

Edit - I just looked at your post history.  Why am I not shocked 

Imagine being this obsessed

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I’m still confused about the discussion. Taylor has been releasing hit albums and singles for almost a decade and a half. Her level of success has already gone far beyond the norm. Pop radio and younger demographics don’t care about her the way people who were in that age range did 5-10 years ago but why are we so shocked? Of course she’s not going to post the same results she did in 2014. Who expects that? This same conversation comes up every time with every artist who seems to defy the norms, as if they’re invincible. Taylor is doing more than just fine. And of course, if she releases Cruel Summer as a single (and I wish she would), the song would flop harder than The Man. Yet, Taylor is still hugely successful and will probably remain that way as she enters the legacy phase of her career.

[spiritboy]

You can only compare other girls when they can sell out stadium dates. Until then, i don't see Ariana and Billie in the same league as Taylor.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I don’t see why they need to be compared at all. All three are at different points of their careers. There are pros and cons to being an established artist nearing the point of legacy status compared to being the ‘in’ new artist that appeals to the younger generation compared to an artist currently in her prime. Taylor’s peak is behind her but in no way is she in any danger of irrelevance. Billie’s peak is potentially ahead of her (assuming she can leverage this first era into something more longterm, which most aren’t able to do) while Ariana is arguably at her peak (or just coming down from it). They are different people at different points experiencing different levels of success that appropriately matches where they’re at. So I’m not sure why there’s a need to pit them against the others. May as well talk about how healthy a potato is compared to an apple and a piece of fish.

[neverduplicated]

May 27, 2020 8:47:44 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

I don’t see why they need to be compared at all. All three are at different points of their careers. There are pros and cons to being an established artist nearing the point of legacy status compared to being the ‘in’ new artist that appeals to the younger generation compared to an artist currently in her prime. Taylor’s peak is behind her but in no way is she in any danger of irrelevance. Billie’s peak is potentially ahead of her (assuming she can leverage this first era into something more longterm, which most aren’t able to do) while Ariana is arguably at her peak (or just coming down from it). They are different people at different points experiencing different levels of success that appropriately matches where they’re at. So I’m not sure why there’s a need to pit them against the others. May as well talk about how healthy a potato is compared to an apple and a piece of fish.

I agree they don't need to be compared. Fan wars are so boring and unhelpful, especially when powerful women are concerned. BUT it bothers me when people casually throw out "facts" that are not true. If you casually throw out that Taylor is being out streamed by Ariana in 2020, then that is just incorrect, and by quite a large margin. And if you casually throw out that Ariana and Billie were more successful in 2019, well once again the numbers don't back up this statement. Someone's concept of "popular" is vague, so we need to look at real numbers, and the numbers do show that Taylor is still on top, or at least comparable with other girls who are also on top. At some point, nitpicking about who did better in what metric is exhausting and unhelpful, and we can find relevant metrics that all three of them did better in.

Let's celebrate the fact that Taylor is still doing so well in 2020, and let's celebrate that Billie is on her way to becoming a true superstar and force in the music industry, and let's celebrate that Ariana is finally getting success worthy of her incredible talent. All of them are true queens! "And we see you over there on the internet comparing all the girls who are killin' it. But we figured you out, we all know now, we all got crowns, you need to calm down." Such relevant words for today

[spiritboy]

Stan wars are so dumb, why not enjoy all the great female artists who release good/great music? Why does it have to turn into a competition? Pop radio stops supporting female artists after a certain age so it's only natural for them to struggle for scoring hits. Taylor is one of the few artists who can sell albums and tickets so she'll always be relevant.

[kimberly]

Taylor Swift was the 5th biggest female artist on the Hot 100 in 2019, 13th overall. She trailed Ariana, Billie, Halsey and Cardi. Mayman and I were talking about single success, and current records' success. Taylor Swift has a bigger catalog = more to stream. No one's denying Taylor is a big artist. No one's denying she was the biggest global artist according to IFPI. But claiming that she's the biggest pop star or bigger than Ariana and Billie in the US is very subjective, and a misjudgment. Bigger according to what?

Based on Billboard's Year End charts,

Top Artists? Ariana leads. Followed by Bille, then Taylor.
Hot 100? Ariana is the #1 woman, #2 overall.
Radio? Ariana leads by far. Ava Max and Normani are names above Taylor in this metric.
Song Sales? Ariana leads, followed by Taylor then Billie.
Billboard 200? Billie wins, Ariana 2nd, Taylor 3rd.
Grammys? Billie swept.
Pure album sales? Lover blew competition out of the water.
Touring? Reputation Tour is the highest grossing tour in US history.

I don't know what the discussion is at this point, it's just some people being super defensive for no reason. I love Taylor. Saw her on the Rep Tour, and bought all her albums' physical copies since RED. She is a super star. Madonna and Katy Perry aren't the biggest pop stars in America, but they were at some point and will always be pop queens. Taylor's career hasn't declined as much as theirs, obviously, but admitting she's not the biggest name right now doesn't change her legacy. It's hard to out perform an era like 1989. I'm positive no era has been bigger than that since. This is also not a "fan war," as I like Taylor and Ariana equally, probably, and Billie not so much.

May 27, 2020 10:39:42 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Hi Kim,

I appreciate your contributions, and I don't want to clog the Taylor thread with stats wars any further, but I think using the Billboard year-end charts as your final conclusion does not work in this case. Lover was released at the end of August. It only had 3 months to gain chart activity for the year-end chart, where TUN was released in the beginning of February, giving it over 9 months to gain chart activity for the year-end charts. Lover has already sailed right past TUN in the US, is still moving more SPS every week, and will likely continue to do so for quite some time. Ariana obviously trumps Taylor in recent single success, but Lover is clearly a more successful album than TUN, both in the US and internationally. The Billboard year-end charts just aren't a good metric for comparison given the extremely different time frames the albums were released in.

All the love,
neverduplicated

I am aware of the limitations of the year-end charts. Hence why I included other metrics. Someone pointed out Taylor being IFPI's #1 artist in 2019 globally, that's why I used Billboard Year End Charts. She wasn't the biggest artist in the US in 2019. She was 13th. (which is appropriate tbh haha) There are so many ways to measure how "big" a pop star is: do you look at Instagram followers? most retweets? best-selling album? best performing singles? highest-grossing tour? 

that said, I think you'd be fooling yourself if you believe Lover era is bigger than TUN, especially in the context that started this conversation, singles. late 2018-early 2019 was Grande's year. everyone was following her relationship, her tweets, her pain, her recovery. 

[suitact]

May 27, 2020 9:48:58 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Taylor Swift was the 5th biggest female artist on the Hot 100 in 2019, 13th overall. She trailed Ariana, Billie, Halsey and Cardi. Mayman and I were talking about single success, and current records' success. Taylor Swift has a bigger catalog = more to stream. No one's denying Taylor is a big artist. No one's denying she was the biggest global artist according to IFPI. But claiming that she's the biggest pop star or bigger than Ariana and Billie in the US is very subjective, and a misjudgment. Bigger according to what?

Based on Billboard's Year End charts,

Top Artists? Ariana leads. Followed by Bille, then Taylor.
Hot 100? Ariana is the #1 woman, #2 overall.
Radio? Ariana leads by far. Ava Max and Normani are names above Taylor in this metric.
Song Sales? Ariana leads, followed by Taylor then Billie.
Billboard 200? Billie wins, Ariana 2nd, Taylor 3rd.
Grammys? Billie swept.
Pure album sales? Lover blew competition out of the water.
Touring? Reputation Tour is the highest grossing tour in US history.

I don't know what the discussion is at this point, it's just some people being super defensive for no reason. I love Taylor. Saw her on the Rep Tour, and bought all her albums' physical copies since RED. She is a super star. Madonna and Katy Perry aren't the biggest pop stars in America, but they were at some point and will always be pop queens. Taylor's career hasn't declined as much as theirs, obviously, but admitting she's not the biggest name right now doesn't change her legacy. It's hard to out perform an era like 1989. I'm positive no era has been bigger than that since. This is also not a "fan war," as I like Taylor and Ariana equally, probably, and Billie not so much.

May 27, 2020 10:39:42 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Hi Kim,

I appreciate your contributions, and I don't want to clog the Taylor thread with stats wars any further, but I think using the Billboard year-end charts as your final conclusion does not work in this case. Lover was released at the end of August. It only had 3 months to gain chart activity for the year-end chart, where TUN was released in the beginning of February, giving it over 9 months to gain chart activity for the year-end charts. Lover has already sailed right past TUN in the US, is still moving more SPS every week, and will likely continue to do so for quite some time. Ariana obviously trumps Taylor in recent single success, but Lover is clearly a more successful album than TUN, both in the US and internationally. The Billboard year-end charts just aren't a good metric for comparison given the extremely different time frames the albums were released in.

All the love,
neverduplicated

I am aware of the limitations of the year-end charts. Hence why I included other metrics. Someone pointed out Taylor being IFPI's #1 artist in 2019 globally, that's why I used Billboard Year End Charts. She wasn't the biggest artist in the US in 2019. She was 13th. (which is appropriate tbh haha) There are so many ways to measure how "big" a pop star is: do you look at Instagram followers? most retweets? best-selling album? best performing singles? highest-grossing tour? 

that said, I think you'd be fooling yourself if you believe Lover era is bigger than TUN, especially in the context that started this conversation, singles. late 2018-early 2019 was Grande's year. everyone was following her relationship, her tweets, her pain, her recovery. 

This. No one is saying Taylor Swift isn't good at making money anymore. Those IFPI receipts are all about that, the pure copies she still manages to sell skew heavily that "success" you are talking about, together with the $2 chinese album sales.

Now in terms of having her music consumed by the wide public...

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I think a lot of it just comes down to how we individually view what it means to be one of "the biggest stars of today." For some of us, it takes into account how recognizable the artist is and what their current impact is overall. Taylor sneezes and she still gets attention for it. Her songs aren't instant #1s anymore but her tours are best-sellers. Same with Gaga. Being able to go Top 20 on pop radio is a win for her, but she started her career with 6 #1s on pop radio ten years ago. So her clout has fallen in that one avenue, but I'd still consider her one of the biggest stars of today. I think the challenge really comes with trying to put them all into a ranking system but then we have to apply different values to different areas. How much value do we place on an ability to sell out arena tours? How much value do we place on physical album sales? How much value do we place on the ability to top a streaming chart? etc, etc. I think sometimes, you just need to settle on the phrase "one of the biggest stars right now" and leave it there.

[neverduplicated]

And in other news, 1989 is up to #110 on the Billboard 200 in its 284th week. Imagine having a pop album still so relevant 5.5 years after its release!

[kamala 2024 truther]

Anyways women don't need to be f**king compared (don't understand why that's still a thing) and Taylor Swift is just as much that bitch 14 years into her career as anyone else who is all the rage at the moment. She may have hit her peak but she is still that bitch. Who can have an album chart on the Billboard 200 non-stop for literally 6 years? That bitch, that's who.

Just my two cents

[kimberly]

May 27, 2020 12:57:31 GMT -5 kamala 2024 truther said:

Anyways women don't need to be f**king compared (don't understand why that's still a thing) and Taylor Swift is just as much that bitch 14 years into her career as anyone else who is all the rage at the moment. She may have hit her peak but she is still that bitch. Who can have an album chart on the Billboard 200 non-stop for literally 6 years? That bitch, that's who.

Just my two cents

I agree with all of this. Many who rose to stardom after Taylor have already faded away. She's a force. And 1989 is one of the greatestestest pop eras in any genre, ever. 

All this fuss just to say "Cruel Summer" probably won't and definitely shouldn't be a single.

[Snowbeast]

Reputation has aged so well for me. For me, it’s her best record. 1989 had stronger singles, but when when you’re rating track by track...reputation kills

Edit: how the fuck was Don’t Blame Me not the second single.

Should of gone:

1. Ready For It
2. Don’t Blame Me
3. Delicate
4. Getaway Car
5. Call It What You Want

[deepston]

May 27, 2020 12:09:58 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Her songs aren't instant #1s anymore but her tours are best-sellers. 

Well to be fair, ME! and YNTCD would have debuted at #1 in 99% of the weeks in the Hot 100. She just got unlucky. 
The hype for her eras is always there, she just hasn't been able to connect as well with her audience as in the past eras.

[Snowbeast]

May 27, 2020 18:08:04 GMT -5 deepston said:

May 27, 2020 12:09:58 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Her songs aren't instant #1s anymore but her tours are best-sellers. 

Well to be fair, ME! and YNTCD would have debuted at #1 in 99% of the weeks in the Hot 100. She just got unlucky. 
The hype for her eras is always there, she just hasn't been able to connect as well with her audience as in the past eras.

I see her to be in the Beyoncé league, where singles are irrelevant. The album sales. The tour sales. That’s the power of reaching icon status and not being the flavour of the moment.

[deepston]

May 27, 2020 18:12:23 GMT -5 Snowbeast said:

May 27, 2020 18:08:04 GMT -5 deepston said:

Well to be fair, ME! and YNTCD would have debuted at #1 in 99% of the weeks in the Hot 100. She just got unlucky. 
The hype for her eras is always there, she just hasn't been able to connect as well with her audience as in the past eras.

I see her to be in the Beyoncé league, where singles are irrelevant. The album sales. The tour sales. That’s the power of reaching icon status and not being the flavour of the moment.

I agree. I still think her next era will be absolutely huge, probably bigger than Lover, if she reinvents her sound. She will probably keep reinventing herself and chase success until her late 30s when she decides to do a back to roots album and lean on country-pop.
Taylor has made it very clear that she is very passionate about music and her fans. Even if she goes the Beyoncé route, she will release much more often.

[Grün]

We see you over there on the internet comparing all girls who are killing it.

Billie is doing great
Ariana is doing great
Taylor is doing great.

For f#cks sake.

On a better topic, I only want Cruel Summer if it has a killer video. Which how things are going, I can't see that happening in this pandemic.

[Anticonformity]

May 27, 2020 23:31:31 GMT -5 Grün said:

On a better topic, I only want Cruel Summer if it has a killer video. Which how things are going, I can't see that happening in this pandemic.

It'll be done on the cheap... turn the camera out the window this Summer when things hit the fan as peeps don't realize that declaring something over doesn't mean it's really over™ and just play the song and boom... A Cruel Summer indeed...

(*please social distance and wear masks!)

[gbaby]

Here for CS as a single. Not here for a bs live video though.