Billboard Hot 100: 12/26/2020

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Even as a "Swifty" the whole release 50 remixes/videos for the sole purpose of chasing a high peak for a singular week not only cheapens the chart (IMO), but is a hollow/superficial victory as it is all about the "appearance" of being a huge hit without the actual substance to justify the title. Also the whole releasing 10 versions of an album/song can't help but feel a bit exploitative to me. Just because you know you have fans who will spend hard-earned money on a dozen versions of the same thing doesn't mean you should encourage it (just my opinion). I get the signed copies of Folklore, but they really could just bundle all the remixes/versions of this song together as one purchase to make it feel less grimy.

I don't really get the point of it all as "Willow" is a very solid song on its own (radio hit or not). Yeah, you might have had a #2 peak, but is that not good enough when you knew going in this material wasn't going to be blowing up the charts or radio? How many artists could reach such a position with a song that sounds like this? All the remixing for radio, the promotional/chart tactics only hurt the integrity of an era built on the notion of true artistry and going against the commercial machine. The material will always be solid, but I can't say I am a fan of all of all these tactics.

As for Taylor caring about the charts, it is clear she always has. I used to think artists caring about chart success and following their single/album performance too closely looked pitiful for some reason (maybe subconsciously I was feeding into the whole toxic "it's uncool to care" mentality). These days I don't see a problem with any artist following the charts and caring about the success of their art. Like, if you spend so much time/energy putting your heart/soul into something, why wouldn't you want and care that it reaches as many people and is as successful as possible?

[levitating]

As much as I love Taylor i’m not going to call out other songs for being inorganic while ignoring what’s happening right now. Billboard needs to change their rules.

[Myth X]

We're going private until most of you can learn to understand this account's purpose. Explain to us how posting about Taylor's historical debuts (lead singles from her earlier albums) did on the charts is "shade" or a drag. It relates to the current race this week and is RELEVANT

— Talk of the Charts (@talkofthecharts) December 17, 2020

lol Swifties attacking TOTC and they had to go private.

This is their BTS army moment I guess

[jayhawk1117]

Is it desperate? A solid amount. But also like... It was debuting at two even without the remixes and only behind Mariah in Christmas.

This is pretty different than some of the many number ones this year. It's not like it was gonna miss the top 5 all together or stalled at 2 or in the top 10. It has strong as hell on streaming and sales and has fine airplay for a slower song. Most other weeks, it'd be number one 🤷🏾‍♂️

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Dec 16, 2020 20:11:02 GMT -5 Myth X said:

We're going private until most of you can learn to understand this account's purpose. Explain to us how posting about Taylor's historical debuts (lead singles from her earlier albums) did on the charts is "shade" or a drag. It relates to the current race this week and is RELEVANT

— Talk of the Charts (@talkofthecharts) December 17, 2020

lol Swifties attacking TOTC and they had to go private.

This is their BTS army moment I guess

Pretty sure it is common knowledge that Twitter is a mecca for outrageous stan behavior across the board.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I’m on the side of all these tactics cheapen the song.

[iHype.]

Dec 16, 2020 19:56:55 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Also the whole releasing 10 versions of an album/song can't help but feel a bit exploitative to me. Just because you know you have fans who will spend hard-earned money on a dozen versions of the same thing doesn't mean you should encourage it (just my opinion).

This is what's always been the most offputting to me about her the past years. This year especially with her has just been squeezing money for the same thing repackaged over and over to her fans in a slightly new form. 

This isn't any different from her releasing 12 album covers to make her die-hard fans collect them each, releasing physical versions in different weeks to make them buy the album again, doing "autographed" copies on sale for weeks on end in large quantities to make hardcore fans think they're getting some exclusive/rare item that honestly isn't (literally them buying the same CD again with her autograph replicated), etc. 

Again, she has excellent PR/imaging at the end of the day, because her fans think she's rewarding them or something and they basically encourage it lol. 

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Dec 16, 2020 18:53:53 GMT -5 kimberly said:

That's the difference. what they are doing now is more comparable to Billie Eilish releasing limited edition "bad guy" cassettes to go number one, not "Life Goes On" or "Trollz."

I mean, yes, and no. bad guy was the biggest song of the year, and it would be a shame if it wasn't #1 for at least one week. Say So and Watermelon are more comparable to the bad guy situation. If your song is already a big hit, there's nothing wrong with pushing it a little.

It's probably me, but I just don't like this new trend:
- promote the hell out of the song with million versions, bundles, discounts, remixes, videos, talk shows;
- great, it debuted at #1;
- :week 2: - we should move on now

it just feels emotionless and fake, like they don't care about it anymore, they 'used' your money just so they could call it a #1 HIT.

That's why I'm kinda sorry for Dua and Don't Start Now. She actually cared about the song, performed it like 15 times, and she didn't even use the "discount card" when she had a chance. Okay, maybe I'm not sorry for her, because DSN is the biggest female song of the year.

but again, it's just my (old-fashioned) pov.

[thegreatdivine]

I'm glad some Taylor fans are calling out this scheme for what it is. It doesn't take anything away from her as an artist, the album as a whole or the single, but it does cheapen the "#1 hit" tag. So many #1 hits this year weren't actual hits by any considerable metric other than they manipulated their way into reaching #1. They won't be remembered and they're inconsequential.

Maybe I'm just an oldie, but I'll always be here for artists releasing their art, marketing and promoting it, yes, but leaving it to fans to support it as they see fit. How a song/album performs without an artist/label scheming to further boost it's performance is the one sure way you can tell how your art is being received and consumed by the GP and it's a true reflection of an artist's current commercial standing. Using bundles to boost your album for several weeks or using cheap schemes to get your song to debut at #1 creates the delusion that you're more successful than you are at that point in time but I guess some artists would rather have that than the alternative.

[xyz]

As a Taylor fan it would have been cooler if she just didnt care for #1 on Folklore and Evermore lead singles, but also I know this is a way for her to get back at her haters. Also they must be well behind Mariah for these tricks.

[ificanthaveyou]

Dec 16, 2020 21:05:22 GMT -5 xyz said:

As a Taylor fan it would have been cooler if she just didnt care for #1 on Folklore and Evermore lead singles, but also I know this is a way for her to get back at her haters. Also they must be well behind Mariah for these tricks.

I think it was insurance. Me! and YNTCD gave them PTSD.

[reputainbow]

i'm also a huge taylor fan and would absolutely love for "willow" to get that #1... but this is just really hard to defend. i have no idea why the $0.69 needed to be discounted in the first place. it just makes taylor look really bad and desperate for the top spot. i believe this is mostly the label's doing though.

i just hope she'll get the #1, otherwise it'll be disappointing if all these versions landed a #2 debut.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 16, 2020 20:25:19 GMT -5 iHype. said:

Dec 16, 2020 19:56:55 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Also the whole releasing 10 versions of an album/song can't help but feel a bit exploitative to me. Just because you know you have fans who will spend hard-earned money on a dozen versions of the same thing doesn't mean you should encourage it (just my opinion).

This is what's always been the most offputting to me about her the past years. This year especially with her has just been squeezing money for the same thing repackaged over and over to her fans in a slightly new form. 

This isn't any different from her releasing 12 album covers to make her die-hard fans collect them each, releasing physical versions in different weeks to make them buy the album again, doing "autographed" copies on sale for weeks on end in large quantities to make hardcore fans think they're getting some exclusive/rare item that honestly isn't (literally them buying the same CD again with her autograph replicated), etc. 

Again, she has excellent PR/imaging at the end of the day, because her fans think she's rewarding them or something and they basically encourage it lol. 

This is the most bothersome aspect about all of this stuff to me (not just Swift, but all artists doing it). There is a certain psychological aspect to standom that I think is akin to addiction. Some type of 'mob mentality' also takes over. Artists/teams definitely take advantage of this condition and essentially gut the bank accounts of these stans. I find that shameless and even predatory.

What you reference in that last sentence is almost like Stockholm Syndrome.

[ificanthaveyou]

Really hope willow hits #1 so this thread can have a meltdown.

[chartfreak]

Am I the only one not bothered by all these remixes being released, by any artist?

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

[colson]

Did they forget to count all of the numerous remixes? Anyway, still one more day left to count but it is an "early" projection.

[ificanthaveyou]

Dec 16, 2020 22:21:38 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

How would they even have the numbers from her website sales? I’ve purchased multiple copies from her website and I’m a lot of other fans have too. Hopefully that will be the difference maker here.

[colson]

Why isn't Amazon streaming data not been made public by now? Do the labels only get the information privately? How do people who do projections on the net estimate streaming numbers if they don't have the Amazon streaming stats?

[Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...]

[HolidayGuy]

An artist releasing multiple versions/mixes of a song is hardly "manipulation." Fans are buying the main product (in this case, digital tracks/singles) and getting it instantly.

And, yes, no way of knowing what sales are from her web store. Any early predictions now have to be taken with a grain of salt, I suppose.

[neverduplicated]

Dec 16, 2020 21:31:17 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Dec 16, 2020 20:25:19 GMT -5 iHype. said:

This is what's always been the most offputting to me about her the past years. This year especially with her has just been squeezing money for the same thing repackaged over and over to her fans in a slightly new form. 

This isn't any different from her releasing 12 album covers to make her die-hard fans collect them each, releasing physical versions in different weeks to make them buy the album again, doing "autographed" copies on sale for weeks on end in large quantities to make hardcore fans think they're getting some exclusive/rare item that honestly isn't (literally them buying the same CD again with her autograph replicated), etc. 

Again, she has excellent PR/imaging at the end of the day, because her fans think she's rewarding them or something and they basically encourage it lol. 

This is the most bothersome aspect about all of this stuff to me (not just Swift, but all artists doing it). There is a certain psychological aspect to standom that I think is akin to addiction. Some type of 'mob mentality' also takes over. Artists/teams definitely take advantage of this condition and essentially gut the bank accounts of these stans. I find that shameless and even predatory.

What you reference in that last sentence is almost like Stockholm Syndrome.

I think you're being very overdramatic. People like to buy merchandise for things they are passionate about. Sports fans spend tons of money on merchandise because of how passionate they are about their team, even though the merchandise itself may be mostly useless. Music fans do the same. When a superstar comes along, they garner passionate fans who obsess over them and then want to collect all the goodies they can that artist releases, and those fans tend to be very proud of their collections. Maybe one day they will regret their purchases, but I'm sure we've all bought lots of useless crap we didn't need that later we regret buying. Relating this to Stockholm Syndrome is suggesting that somehow artists force their fans to buy their merchandise at gunpoint. Fans voluntarily participate in these activities. The fans want these items. If they didn't want them, they wouldn't sell. The fans are happy, the artists are happy, capitalism continues. I would go so far as to say one of the hallmarks of superstar musicians historically has been an overabundance of merchandise. It's just part of the game, and no one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Dec 16, 2020 22:23:34 GMT -5 colson said:

Did they forget to count all of the numerous remixes?

Winston probably counted the first 4 versions only. not sure

Dec 16, 2020 22:32:51 GMT -5 ificanthaveyou said:

Dec 16, 2020 22:21:38 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

How would they even have the numbers from her website sales?

it's just an estimate, maybe they know the rough numbers from the previous releases. or they know the number if it is sold out?

Dec 16, 2020 22:35:59 GMT -5 colson said:

How do people who do projections on the net estimate streaming numbers if they don't have the Amazon streaming stats?

not an expert here, but they probably know the YT, Spotify, AM numbers, and overall streaming numbers, so I assume it's not THAT difficult after. OFC, the numbers are not 100% correct, but they can lead somewhere. I guess.

[colson]

Dec 16, 2020 22:38:04 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

An artist releasing multiple versions/mixes of a song is hardly "manipulation." Fans are buying the main product (in this case, digital tracks/singles) and getting it instantly.

And, yes, no way of knowing what sales are from her web store. Any early predictions now have to be taken with a grain of salt, I suppose.

The same thing can be said about the Amazon streaming data which could offset the sales. We really don't know anything which is why I asked where are these people who are projecting getting their data outside of the publicly known sources. Then again, I realize they are just guesstimates.

[firefox]

Artists who doesn't have a number-one wanted a number-one.
Artists who already have number-ones wanted more number-ones.
They will never be satisfied.

(Disclaimer: NOT ALL ARTISTS)

[kcdawg13]

Fuck, Blinding Lights down to #23. It has a chance of being gone during the week of Christmas.

[jthentic]

Dec 16, 2020 19:10:31 GMT -5 nak said:

I don't think this is actually Taylor's doing. I can't imagine her caring THAT much. Def Republic records doing

If that's the case, JB was held @gun point by Scooter to post that desperate ig post 🤣🤣🤣

[kimberly]

Dec 16, 2020 20:26:12 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

Dec 16, 2020 18:53:53 GMT -5 kimberly said:

That's the difference. what they are doing now is more comparable to Billie Eilish releasing limited edition "bad guy" cassettes to go number one, not "Life Goes On" or "Trollz."

I mean, yes, and no. bad guy was the biggest song of the year, and it would be a shame if it wasn't #1 for at least one week. Say So and Watermelon are more comparable to the bad guy situation. If your song is already a big hit, there's nothing wrong with pushing it a little.

It's probably me, but I just don't like this new trend:
- promote the hell out of the song with million versions, bundles, discounts, remixes, videos, talk shows;
- great, it debuted at #1;
- :week 2: - we should move on now

it just feels emotionless and fake, like they don't care about it anymore, they 'used' your money just so they could call it a #1 HIT.

That's why I'm kinda sorry for Dua and Don't Start Now. She actually cared about the song, performed it like 15 times, and she didn't even use the "discount card" when she had a chance. Okay, maybe I'm not sorry for her, because DSN is the biggest female song of the year.

but again, it's just my (old-fashioned) pov.

I mean, I get your point, but a song's performance in other weeks aren't really relevant to the conversation here. Without the d2c sales, "willow" (and "cardigan") would have both been one of the biggest songs of their respective weeks anyway, most likely landing at #2. When #1 is within reach, do we expect labels to just sit there and watch their biggest star fall short of debuting at #1 (when seemingly everyone and their mothers are debuting at #1 these days)? 

All pushes for a #1 are emotionless and a PR move at their core. Anything you buy on an artist's website is exploiting your affinity for the artist to make money off of you. Welcome to capitalism.

[ificanthaveyou]

I don’t get why some of y’all have a problem with artists wanting chart achievements and #1s. Hell, y’all know Mariah loves and lives for her records and #1s. When you are great and you’re used to greatness, it is validation that you’re doing your job well according to public perception and response. It’s like an athlete wanting to win a championship and/or get into the record books. Some artists want to make their mark on the industry. Why does this bother some of y’all so much... she’s not killing kittens, she’s trying to cement her legacy.

[shayonce]

- Willow 4 versions are discounted again to $0.48.
- 3 extra bundle versions are released, limited till chart week end.
- Albums are discounted for both Evermore($6.89)/Folklore deluxe($5.51).
- All discounts are last till chart week end.