Why is Avril Lavigne so forgotten?

[slowmo]

Some artists/acts are meant for longer, bigger careers and some come in, make their mark fast and fade away just as fast. As unfair as it is to her, her image and persona were set with people in those first couple years and as her fans and contemporaries grew up and evolved, she was kind of stuck with that image as she was also growing up. And then when she came out with Girlfriend which I don't know if it was intended to be ironic or what, but it was so opposite of her anti-pop persona that everyone had of her and I think that completely backfired in the long run.

[.indulgecountry]

This Melanie Trump plagiarism tea tho

Mar 23, 2021 14:18:53 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

And interestingly enough, I think that resurgence is indeed starting, being spearheaded by none other than... Machine Gun Kelly. (There's a statement I'd never thought I'd say.) You also have "Monsters" being massive on alt and mildly crossing over while Avril herself is currently charting on alt with a song in the same vein as those two! I truly believe her resurgence is coming. (At least in name recognition. A resurgence of her career in general is another question.)

Mar 22, 2021 17:13:59 GMT -5 .indulgecountry said:

And with the way MGK is kinda spear-heading this new resurgence back into a pop punk style, I feel like Avril's in a better spot right now than she's been in a long time to potentially make a wave again. That MOD SUN "Flames" collab that recently came out has made a decent splash already.

[The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷]

Mar 23, 2021 20:59:24 GMT -5 .indulgecountry said:

Mar 23, 2021 17:39:09 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

www.nickiswift.com/136754/stars-who-cant-stand-christina-aguilera/

This list is at the very least as equally valid as trotting out recording artists like Ava Max and Selena Gomez as being examples of those who were supposedly greatly inspired by the music of Xtina.

I'm surprised this list doesn't include Mary J Blige... I remember when she called Xtina nasty on an interview years and years ago. She even compared here attitude to Britney, saying that Britney couldn't sing as good as Xtina, but Britney would go on being more successful because sheknew how to respect people (or something like that). I wish I could find that interview... there used to be a video on YouTube

[leonagwen]

Maybe because Avril hasn't had a decent hit since 2011.

[degen]

Mar 23, 2021 20:59:24 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

Mar 23, 2021 16:39:49 GMT -5 degen said:

Nah, Christina came a few years before Avril, and lasted on the charts a few years afterwards. By the time Avril debut, Christina already had 5 top 10 hits (which is what Avril would achieve over her entire career, OOP.) As someone pointed out, Christina has double the hits that Avril had. Avril’s last top 10 hit in the U.S. was in 2007. Christina’s last solo top 10 hit was in 2008, but kept her shelf life going well into the 2010s with the hit collaborations. Christina won accolades and is a much bigger star than Avril is. For you to insinuate they had the same shelf life is inaccurate. They certainly did not.

To clarify, when I referred to their shelf life I was only talking about the time span in which they were relevant, not a sales comparison (Christina certainly had more sales than Avril did, and in general just more output). Accolades certainly don't have anything to do with that, as plenty of people can get accolades and great reviews while selling next to nothing.

Christina debuted in 1999 and her last certified album (her GH) was released in 2008, so about nine years. Avril debuted in 2002 and her last certified album was Goodbye Lullaby in 2011, also nine years.

How one debates the length of their shelf lives is admittedly very subjective. I went with the last certified album cutoff, but if you want to get highly technical about it and focus on singles, Christina's last chart appearance at ALL was in 2013 (Say Something and Feel This Moment). Both singles were top 10 hits, but neither were on any album of hers and I'm not really sure why she got equal billing on Say So because she's not actually on the track that much and it's not like her name was a selling point by then. Avril's last top 10 hit was Girlfriend in 2007, but she's had two more top 20 hits (What The Hell in 2011, Here's To Never Growing Up in 2013) and several low-charting singles since then, with her last appearance on the chart in 2018 with Head Above Water (#64). And funny enough, despite both you and I pointing out earlier that Avril never charted on alternative or rock herself, she did just make her first entry on both those charts last month, as a feature on Mod Sun's Flames (an emo/punk-pop song).

tbh It looks like, if there was any mistake in me saying their shelf lives were similar, it was in me not giving Avril enough credit. Rather ironically, despite Avril being the seemingly more forgotten one, she's also the one who would likely have much better odds of charting at all if both of them were to release a lead single today.

So your acting like Christina only charted in the 2010s with features? Well what about the songs that charted off “Bionic,” “Burlesque” and “Lotus”? They pretty much charted on much better levels than a “Head Above Water” or what ever. Christina also charted in the Top 10 on AC radio just recently with her Mulan song, so what’s your point about Avrils recent charting?

[Joe1240]

Avril Lavigne is more remembered than other songwriters from that era such as Michelle Branch and Vanessa Carlton. As for why she seems forgotten,Avril hasn't done much to keep herself in the public eye for the GP.

[Deleted]

Melissa left the industry by choice in order to preserve Avril's legacy. It backfired but her intentions were pure.

[die Lotterie]

The pedestal Avril is being placed upon is comical to me. She was on top of the world for a couple years, but was also extremely niche. She had some pop hits and will be remembered as a Hot Topic queen that wore arm sweatbands and was a proponent of colored hair and streaky highlights. Regardless of the territory she or her label intended to venture into, was a massive push really ever executed to sustain her career highs or try to market her differently? I'm probably missing something here, but I remember a lull, "Girlfriend" and not much after. Was she probably a recluse at one point by her own choosing?

She's great and all, but her success feels like Ashanti's to me. Huge for a couple years, but I don't really sit here almost 20 years later perplexed about why they aren't at Britney, Gaga, Rihanna levels of superstardom.

Disclaimer: Forgive me. I'm balls deep in the IPAs and I didn't mean to come off snarky if that's how this comes across. I just love that this thread is 3 pages in almost 24 hours.

[Au$tin]

Mar 23, 2021 21:05:46 GMT -5 .indulgecountry said:

This Melanie Trump plagiarism tea tho

Mar 23, 2021 14:18:53 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

And interestingly enough, I think that resurgence is indeed starting, being spearheaded by none other than... Machine Gun Kelly. (There's a statement I'd never thought I'd say.) You also have "Monsters" being massive on alt and mildly crossing over while Avril herself is currently charting on alt with a song in the same vein as those two! I truly believe her resurgence is coming. (At least in name recognition. A resurgence of her career in general is another question.)

Mar 22, 2021 17:13:59 GMT -5 .indulgecountry said:

And with the way MGK is kinda spear-heading this new resurgence back into a pop punk style, I feel like Avril's in a better spot right now than she's been in a long time to potentially make a wave again. That MOD SUN "Flames" collab that recently came out has made a decent splash already.

Noooooooo not Melania Trump! 😭😭😭😭

I'd like to say I didn't completely rip off your post, but we literally both used the word "spearhead" and mentioned MGK. Even I'm now convinced I plagiarized you omg 💀

[irice22]

I constantly DAYDREAM about how differently her career would have turned out of the Under my Skin era was handled differently.

[Enigma.]

Mar 23, 2021 17:39:09 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

www.nickiswift.com/136754/stars-who-cant-stand-christina-aguilera/

at everyone being young and such bitches in that article, funny to read.

[degen]

So let’s clock a bit. Forget the 2000’s decade where Christina absolutely destroyed Avril Lavigne chart wise.

Let’s take this to the 2010s.

For Avril we had;

Alice: #71
What the Hell: #11
Smile: #68
Wish You Were Here: #65
Here’s to Never Growing Up: #20
Rock N Roll: #91
Let Me Go: #78
Hello Kitty: #75
Head Above Water: #64


For Christina we had;

Not Myself Tonight: #23
Woohoo: #79
Bionic: #66
Show Me How You Burlesque: #70
Moves Like Jagger: #1
Your Body: #34
Just a Fool: #71
Beautiful (The Voice): #74
The Prayer (The Voice): #85
Feel This Moment: #8
Say Something: #4

Ya absolutely, Avril surely proved her “shelf life” in this comparison. Even in the 2010s Christina had more charting hits than her. It’s always nice when you can confront delusion with facts.😭😭😭😭

[Au$tin]

I'm sorry, why the f**k are we discussing Christina Aguilera? In what world are her and Avril's careers comparable? Literally the only reason you could compare them is because both birthed their careers out of some marketing ploy to have an "anti-Britney Spears" and that's where the comparisons end.

And worst of all, whoever first started got the damn Xtina stans all riled up. Why the f**k would you do that? You know they're always right on the verge of going off the rails. I mean look at them, trying to defend her against Avril Lavigne. Like... Y'all know it's 2021 and absolutely 0 people give a shit, right?

[Ling-Ling]

Only on Pulse do people spend so much time trying to invent a legacy for Christina Aguilera.

As for Avril, she was a very of the moment artist. And then the moment passed. Not to mention, she was always on the verge of becoming a punchline. And then she became one.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Yeah, I’m still not sure why Christina’s 2010s charting songs and Avril’s 2010s charting songs have anything to do with much. We can sit here all week comparing different artists who charted in the 2010s. I guess someone made a comment comparing them and someone else got offended. But okay. Let’s do Sheryl Crow next!

[Deleted]

Avril would've lasted longer if she updated the black mascara raccoon eyelashes look.

Look not every artist knows how to use their past hitmaking to keep themselves relevant today. She isn't forgotten we all remember her and her hits but she hasn't done s**t lately and hasn't been in our faces so why would we care? On to the next one. Avril was artist who was of the moment she isn't exactly a once in a lifetime artist.

There is very few Mariahs, Britney's who are past their prime hitmaking days and we still care. Yall keep bringing up Christina who had a bigger peak, songs and length of career and we dont really care about her either that much anymore.

[mkarns]

Mar 24, 2021 2:41:54 GMT -5 degen said:

So let’s clock a bit. Forget the 2000’s decade where Christina absolutely destroyed Avril Lavigne chart wise.

Let’s take this to the 2010s.

For Avril we had;

Alice: #71
What the Hell: #11
Smile: #68
Wish You Were Here: #65
Here’s to Never Growing Up: #20
Rock N Roll: #91
Let Me Go: #78
Hello Kitty: #75
Head Above Water: #64


For Christina we had;

Not Myself Tonight: #23
Woohoo: #79
Bionic: #66
Show Me How You Burlesque: #70
Moves Like Jagger: #1
Your Body: #34
Just a Fool: #71
Beautiful (The Voice): #74
The Prayer (The Voice): #85
Feel This Moment: #8
Say Something: #4

Ya absolutely, Avril surely proved her “shelf life” in this comparison. Even in the 2010s Christina had more charting hits than her. It’s always nice when you can confront delusion with facts.😭😭😭😭

Without taking sides here, Christina's three top 10 hits weren't really "hers"; they were features on others' hits, and her role wasn't really that prominent on two of them (maybe you can make a case for "Feel This Moment"). On her own the best she's done from 2010 on is #23, while Avril has charted higher twice.

But solo, neither has really been a serious contender for the top of the charts, or near it, for about a decade now. Christina has at least kept herself somewhat more visible by other means. Avril is well enough remembered by many that she could claim a higher profile if she tried, but for whatever reason her legacy doesn't so far extend much beyond her roughly 2002-07 string of major hits.

[The Brazilian Guy 🇧🇷]

Mar 24, 2021 6:22:13 GMT -5 Ling-Ling said:

Only on Pulse do people spend so much time trying to invent a legacy for Christina Aguilera.

As for Avril, she was a very of the moment artist. And then the moment passed. Not to mention, she was always on the verge of becoming a punchline. And then she became one.

Thanks for bringing this up because during her prime, I've always felt Avril walked on a thin line between "credible artist" (cause she actually had some pretty good songs) and "novelty act" (as her "skater-girl-rebel-act" sorta become her main appeal and to me it always felt so contrived, almost like a parody), and I think that was really detrimental to her in the long run

[SPRΞΞ]

in some ways, Avril is a lot like Meghan Trainor. Huge first couple albums with a very niche sound and image, and then everything falls apart later on when the label tries to mold them into something they're not.

[nickd]

I don't think Avril Lavigne is forgotten. She hasn't had a major presence in pop culture for a decade, but I think she's still remembered as one of the defining artists of that moment (early-mid 00s).

And yeah, her early hits were fairly pop leaning (pop-rock) but a lot of her smaller hits and album tracks were fairly heavily punk-pop and alt-rock influenced, more so than the other artists she's been compared to here. She'd fit in just as well with Sum-41, Nickelback, Paramore and Fall Out Boy in the early-mid 00s as with Kelly Clarkson imo (let alone Britney/Christina). So when the sound of mainstream pop shifted away having pop-rock as one of the sub-genres it was acceptant of, it was more difficult for Avril to adapt while maintaining her credibility.

I would say that some of her songs would have fit just fine with the sound of alt/mainstream rock radio of the time, but it's always difficult to cross-over from pop to the smaller genres because the smaller genres tend to be protective of their niches. Being the a female solo artist with a touring band, rather than the lead singer of a rock band, starting out not knowing how to play guitar, having her earliest success on pop radio, and a fanbase that was mostly teen girls, being on a major label, etc... wasn't going to make it easy for her to cross-over to alt/rock. Although I think she definitely had support from listeners of the genre, her image among them was still too mixed/polarizing for that to work.

She was also never a tabloid staple like Kelly, Christina, Britney and J-Lo were, and didn't have other ventures (The Voice, Idol, acting) to maintain a high profile as a celebrity. Her 2013-2019 break was also really long and didn't help, and her last 3 albums weren't that good anyways (I only 3-4 songs from them).

[nickd]

For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)...

Spotify Followers

10,558,136: P!nk
9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez
8,732,805: Britney Spears
7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson
7,005,908: Avril Lavigne
5,976,217: Christina Aguilera


"This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify

792,966: P!nk
576,725: Britney Spears
426,169: Avril Lavigne
400,942: Jennifer Lopez
190,256: Christina Aguilera
164,307: Kelly Clarkson



Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23)

4.58m: P!nk
3.76m: Britney Spears
2.27m: Avril Lavigne
2.00m: Christina Aguilera
1.96m: Jennifer Lopez
1.63m: Kelly Clarkson

[degen]

Mar 24, 2021 9:43:32 GMT -5 mkarns said:

Mar 24, 2021 2:41:54 GMT -5 degen said:

So let’s clock a bit. Forget the 2000’s decade where Christina absolutely destroyed Avril Lavigne chart wise.

Let’s take this to the 2010s.

For Avril we had;

Alice: #71
What the Hell: #11
Smile: #68
Wish You Were Here: #65
Here’s to Never Growing Up: #20
Rock N Roll: #91
Let Me Go: #78
Hello Kitty: #75
Head Above Water: #64


For Christina we had;

Not Myself Tonight: #23
Woohoo: #79
Bionic: #66
Show Me How You Burlesque: #70
Moves Like Jagger: #1
Your Body: #34
Just a Fool: #71
Beautiful (The Voice): #74
The Prayer (The Voice): #85
Feel This Moment: #8
Say Something: #4

Ya absolutely, Avril surely proved her “shelf life” in this comparison. Even in the 2010s Christina had more charting hits than her. It’s always nice when you can confront delusion with facts.😭😭😭😭

Without taking sides here, Christina's three top 10 hits weren't really "hers"; they were features on others' hits, and her role wasn't really that prominent on two of them (maybe you can make a case for "Feel This Moment"). On her own the best she's done from 2010 on is #23, while Avril has charted higher twice.

But solo, neither has really been a serious contender for the top of the charts, or near it, for about a decade now. Christina has at least kept herself somewhat more visible by other means. Avril is well enough remembered by many that she could claim a higher profile if she tried, but for whatever reason her legacy doesn't so far extend much beyond her roughly 2002-07 string of major hits.

Why is it that everyone has a right to take credit for their features, but when it comes to Christina’s there’s always doubts. She had a huge role in making “Say Something” a hit, considering the song didn’t even chart before they released the duet version. Their performance on “The Voice” and the AMA’s skyrocketed it into the top 5 on Billboard. So to say she had no part in its success is a big fib. She was even credited as a main billing on it because of her contribution to making it a hit. We aren’t going to discredit this hit just because it doesn’t fit an overall narrative that other pop fans like to think about her.

As for “Moves Like Jagger,” this was another case of it becoming a hit because it was a spawn of “The Voice.” It was the first time the network tried something like this (tying in new music with their coaches) and it caught like wildfire. So again, she was part of that whole setup, you can’t say the song would have been a hit without her. Both her and Maroon 5 were coming off flop eras. The package of The Voice coaches performing this catchy song was too irresistible to ignore. Again, we aren’t discrediting Christina just because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

[degen]

Mar 24, 2021 13:48:17 GMT -5 nickd said:

For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)...

Spotify Followers

10,558,136: P!nk
9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez
8,732,805: Britney Spears
7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson
7,005,908: Avril Lavigne
5,976,217: Christina Aguilera


"This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify

792,966: P!nk
576,725: Britney Spears
426,169: Avril Lavigne
400,942: Jennifer Lopez
190,256: Christina Aguilera
164,307: Kelly Clarkson



Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23)

4.58m: P!nk
3.76m: Britney Spears
2.27m: Avril Lavigne
2.00m: Christina Aguilera
1.96m: Jennifer Lopez
1.63m: Kelly Clarkson

I’m not sure what to make of these numbers. Avril came out a few years after all these girls (except Kelly), so shouldn’t her numbers actually be higher than all of them? There’s also a lot of Christina music that isn’t being counted towards her totals on Spotify, like the Burlesque soundtrack. Britney and Christina are from the 90s...so for 90s acts their streaming numbers are holding up well.

[ampersand]

I'm screaming @ Christina being the focal point of this discussion. Poor Avril, even forgotten in her own thread!

[nickd]

Mar 24, 2021 7:04:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Yeah, I’m still not sure why Christina’s 2010s charting songs and Avril’s 2010s charting songs have anything to do with much. We can sit here all week comparing different artists who charted in the 2010s. I guess someone made a comment comparing them and someone else got offended. But okay. Let’s do Sheryl Crow next!

Yeah, I mean Evanescence hasn't made any noise in forever but Fallen is still being streamed at a comparable level to the biggest Britney, Xtina, Beyonce/DC, P!nk, Kelly and J-Lo albums from that era. Some artists are just of a certain time in history, but that doesn't really mean they're forgotten.

[degen]

Mar 24, 2021 14:09:38 GMT -5 nickd said:

Mar 24, 2021 7:04:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Yeah, I’m still not sure why Christina’s 2010s charting songs and Avril’s 2010s charting songs have anything to do with much. We can sit here all week comparing different artists who charted in the 2010s. I guess someone made a comment comparing them and someone else got offended. But okay. Let’s do Sheryl Crow next!

Yeah, I mean Evanescence hasn't made any noise in forever but Fallen is still being streamed at a comparable level to the biggest Britney, Xtina, Beyonce/DC, P!nk, Kelly and J-Lo albums from that era. Some artists are just of a certain time in history, but that doesn't really mean they're forgotten.

Also sometimes an artist only had a couple of songs that stand above the rest of their catalogue, so their one project is going to get higher streams than say a J.lo who doesn’t have 1 signature project so you have a handful of options if you want a j.lo throwback. Whereas most people wanting an evanescence throwback will go to either “Bring Me To Life” or “My immortal”.

This is certainly the case with Avril too. If people randomly decided “let’s do an Avril throwback”, they are going to go to her first 3 singles. Whereas with Britney, Christina, Kelly, etc, you have much more options spanning across a decade.

[nickd]

Mar 24, 2021 14:01:39 GMT -5 degen said:

Mar 24, 2021 13:48:17 GMT -5 nickd said:

For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)...

Spotify Followers

10,558,136: P!nk
9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez
8,732,805: Britney Spears
7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson
7,005,908: Avril Lavigne
5,976,217: Christina Aguilera


"This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify

792,966: P!nk
576,725: Britney Spears
426,169: Avril Lavigne
400,942: Jennifer Lopez
190,256: Christina Aguilera
164,307: Kelly Clarkson



Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23)

4.58m: P!nk
3.76m: Britney Spears
2.27m: Avril Lavigne
2.00m: Christina Aguilera
1.96m: Jennifer Lopez
1.63m: Kelly Clarkson

I’m not sure what to make of these numbers. Avril came out a few years after all these girls (except Kelly), so shouldn’t her numbers actually be higher than all of them? There’s also a lot of Christina music that isn’t being counted towards her totals on Spotify, like the Burlesque soundtrack. Britney and Christina are from the 90s...so for 90s acts their streaming numbers are holding up well.

The Christina stats include Lady Marmalade and Burlesque. It also includes Say Something although it doesn't include Moves Like Jagger.

I'm not sure why coming out in 1999 vs 2002 would make much of a difference. Spotify only launched in the US in 2011, and became a major force in 2013-2016.

[nickd]

Mar 24, 2021 14:16:50 GMT -5 degen said:

Mar 24, 2021 14:09:38 GMT -5 nickd said:

Yeah, I mean Evanescence hasn't made any noise in forever but Fallen is still being streamed at a comparable level to the biggest Britney, Xtina, Beyonce/DC, P!nk, Kelly and J-Lo albums from that era. Some artists are just of a certain time in history, but that doesn't really mean they're forgotten.

This is certainly the case with Avril too. If people randomly decided “let’s do an Avril throwback”, they are going to go to her first 3 singles. Whereas with Britney, Christina, Kelly, etc, you have much more options spanning across a decade.

Nah.

[degen]

Mar 24, 2021 14:25:44 GMT -5 nickd said:

Mar 24, 2021 14:16:50 GMT -5 degen said:

This is certainly the case with Avril too. If people randomly decided “let’s do an Avril throwback”, they are going to go to her first 3 singles. Whereas with Britney, Christina, Kelly, etc, you have much more options spanning across a decade.

Nah.

What are Avril’s most streamed songs?

[Enigma.]

Complicated is just about to reach 400 million on Spotify, which is very impressive for a catalogue track (a song released before streaming era)

Her 2011 album Goodbye Lullaby actually has some great streaming numbers as well: What the Hell 181m, Wish You Were Here 81m, Smile 59m.. Every album from 2002 to 2013's Avril Lavigne have decently streamed singles at least.