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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 24, 2021 15:24:10 GMT -5
For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)... Spotify Followers 10,558,136: P!nk 9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez 8,732,805: Britney Spears 7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson 7,005,908: Avril Lavigne 5,976,217: Christina Aguilera "This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify 792,966: P!nk 576,725: Britney Spears 426,169: Avril Lavigne 400,942: Jennifer Lopez 190,256: Christina Aguilera 164,307: Kelly Clarkson Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23) 4.58m: P!nk 3.76m: Britney Spears 2.27m: Avril Lavigne 2.00m: Christina Aguilera 1.96m: Jennifer Lopez 1.63m: Kelly Clarkson Iβm not sure what to make of these numbers. Avril came out a few years after all these girls (except Kelly), so shouldnβt her numbers actually be higher than all of them? Thereβs also a lot of Christina music that isnβt being counted towards her totals on Spotify, like the Burlesque soundtrack. Britney and Christina are from the 90s...so for 90s acts their streaming numbers are holding up well. Not you trying to have it both ways lmao
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Mar 24, 2021 15:57:06 GMT -5
What are Avrilβs most streamed songs? Avril has nine songs with over 100m streams, the same as Britney. Granted Britney will have eleven in a few days but still. All-time top 20 most streamed songs for each as a lead (plus major features) Avril Lavigne 399,060,873 Complicated 264,326,608 Sk8er Boi 200,048,831 Girlfriend 181,636,084 What The Hell 163,187,198 Head Above Water 132,026,333 Here's To Never Growing Up 129,383,551 When You're Gone 129,377,959 I'm With You 112,380,311 My Happy Ending 80,793,352 Wish You Were Here 69,412,081 Keep Holding On 58,745,759 Smile 56,382,013 Let Me Go 46,866,142 Rock N Roll 46,409,805 Nobody's Home 37,201,912 Hot 32,777,706 Give What You Like 32,687,889 Hello Kitty 30,307,704 Tell Me It's Over 29,422,308 Don't Tell Me Britney Spears 537,755,167 Toxic 369,435,440 Oops!...I Did It Again 371,034,046 ...Baby One More Time 257,806,375 Womanizer 208,119,939 Work Bitch 150,620,513 Gimme More 132,992,676 Circus 114,743,442 Make Me... 108,594,208 Till the World Ends 99,673,705 Criminal 99,506,851 I'm A Slave 4 U 91,739,712 Sometimes 86,153,143 I Wanna Go 84,641,925 Everytime 79,220,958 Stronger 79,029,754 Piece of Me 77,517,547 If U Seek Amy 74,181,371 Lucky 62,118,217 3 61,051,529 Slumber Party major features 382,703,031 Scream & Shout 64,173,980 Pretty Girls Christina Aguilera 728,529,652 Say Something 229,706,965 Lady Marmalade 203,313,414 Genie In A Bottle 202,345,496 Beautiful 134,157,923 Dirrty 126,662,929 Fighter 111,230,367 Hurt 94,657,767 El Ultimo Adios 80,015,504 Candyman 77,289,732 Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas 76,713,243 Ain't No Other Man 62,105,553 Fall In Line 61,746,258 What A Girl Wants 60,442,428 Show Me How You Burlesque 54,446,046 Your Body 53,844,920 This Christmas 50,072,874 Come on over Baby 46,681,896 Bound To You 46,466,804 Express 44,214,241 Can't Hold Us Down major features 653,324,282 Moves Like Jagger 272,152,963 Feel This Moment Kelly Clarkson 401,697,491 Because of You 359,916,822 Since U Been Gone 343,083,992 Stronger (What Doesn't Kill You) 266,484,784 Underneath the Tree 189,810,260 Heartbeat Song 127,884,042 Breakaway 124,348,159 Piece By Piece 106,64,314 My Life Would Suck Without You 84,504,533 Broken & Beautiful 68,613,395 Love So Soft 63,334,413 Behind These Hazel Eyes 59,450,386 Don't You Wanna Stay 46,511,213 Catch My Breath 43,763,475 Already Gone 43,090,919 Mr. Know It All 38,982,652 Never Enough 37,985,534 A Moment Like This 36,279,533 Wrapped In Red 32,720,241 Miss Independent 28,136,855 Dark Side My biggest reason for disagreeing was Avril's album track streams though, which are really quite good compared to other albums from the same period.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Mar 24, 2021 16:22:51 GMT -5
My biggest reason for disagreeing was Avril's album track streams though, which are really quite good compared to other albums from the same period. By the way when I say "quite good" I don't mean compared to pop girls but compared to more album oriented artists. Avril's album tracks from her first 3 albums do significantly better than Britney, Kelly, J-Lo, Christina and P!nk's album tracks from that period.
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Koochie
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Post by Koochie on Mar 24, 2021 16:23:01 GMT -5
I'll be honest I think Christina's shelf live was longer than Avril's (not by much), but I'm just wondering why we're doing this much about a well-supported, but conflicting opinion when nobody f**king cares about either of theses girls anymore. The most important takeaway from all of this, and it's one nobody has mentioned yet, is that Avril might have been able to salvage her career had Ashlee Simpson not killed it. Itβs always nice when you can confront delusion with facts.ππππ who's gonna tell her
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Post by Positive Tension on Mar 24, 2021 18:24:13 GMT -5
I'd also have to add- and although it was pointed out already- that Kelly pretty much took over Avril's place when she released Breakaway, which is very much in the same vein as Under My Skin- I'd say it's even better. Pink also did the same with I'm Not Dead, and they were both released when Avril was between albums. The three year wait between Under My Skin and The Best Damn Thing was also pretty long- so much changed between 2004 and 2007, and Avril wasn't very visible during her break. With Kelly and Pink on the scene, Avril didn't seem as necessary as she was back in 2002/2004. She also stood out in the beginning and benefitted because she was marketed as the "anti-Britney," but by 2007 people had long since moved on from those comparisons.
I'll give Avril credit for showing maturity with "Keep Holding On," which was a decent hit (I know it was for a movie but still), but that makes "Girlfriend's" release even more jarring.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Mar 24, 2021 19:08:43 GMT -5
I'd also have to add- and although it was pointed out already- that Kelly pretty much took over Avril's place when she released Breakaway, which is very much in the same vein as Under My Skin- I'd say it's even better. Pink also did the same with I'm Not Dead, and they were both released when Avril was between albums. The three year wait between Under My Skin and The Best Damn Thing was also pretty long- so much changed between 2004 and 2007, and Avril wasn't very visible during her break. With Kelly and Pink on the scene, Avril didn't seem as necessary as she was back in 2002/2004. She also stood out in the beginning and benefitted because she was marketed as the "anti-Britney," but by 2007 people had long since moved on from those comparisons. I'll give Avril credit for showing maturity with "Keep Holding On," which was a decent hit (I know it was for a movie but still), but that makes "Girlfriend's" release even more jarring. I think Under My Skin is still pretty heavy/rock sounding compared to Breakaway and I'm Not Dead, especially with songs like Forgotten, Don't Tell Me and Take Me Away. However, I think the heaviness, distorted guitars, etc on those songs only make her less appealing to pop radio while still facing rock radio that's not really interested in her for various reasons. My Happy Ending was probably her most Kelly Clarkson-esque song on Under My Skin and it did much better than lead single Don't Tell Me, and than Nobody's Home.
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BDGeek
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Post by BDGeek on Mar 24, 2021 19:31:36 GMT -5
For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)... Spotify Followers 10,558,136: P!nk 9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez 8,732,805: Britney Spears 7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson 7,005,908: Avril Lavigne 5,976,217: Christina Aguilera "This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify 792,966: P!nk 576,725: Britney Spears 426,169: Avril Lavigne 400,942: Jennifer Lopez 190,256: Christina Aguilera 164,307: Kelly Clarkson Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23) 4.58m: P!nk 3.76m: Britney Spears 2.27m: Avril Lavigne 2.00m: Christina Aguilera 1.96m: Jennifer Lopez 1.63m: Kelly Clarkson Spotify numbers are international, correct? That would help explain some of the surprise in Avril's numbers. I recall she remained fairly popular in Japan, China, Brazil, etc. long after her peak in the US, and our discussion thus far has been fairly US-centric. P!nk's significant lead over the others in all categories fascinates me. She's probably the least discussed of the bunch on Pulse, and I don't meet many P!nk stans IRL either.
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Mylo13 π
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Post by Mylo13 π on Mar 24, 2021 19:36:52 GMT -5
Tell me, why'd y'all have to go and make things so complicated?
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slowmo
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Post by slowmo on Mar 24, 2021 20:25:54 GMT -5
For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)... Spotify Followers 10,558,136: P!nk 9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez 8,732,805: Britney Spears 7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson 7,005,908: Avril Lavigne 5,976,217: Christina Aguilera "This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify 792,966: P!nk 576,725: Britney Spears 426,169: Avril Lavigne 400,942: Jennifer Lopez 190,256: Christina Aguilera 164,307: Kelly Clarkson Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23) 4.58m: P!nk 3.76m: Britney Spears 2.27m: Avril Lavigne 2.00m: Christina Aguilera 1.96m: Jennifer Lopez 1.63m: Kelly Clarkson Spotify numbers are international, correct? That would help explain some of the surprise in Avril's numbers. I recall she remained fairly popular in Japan, China, Brazil, etc. long after her peak in the US, and our discussion thus far has been fairly US-centric. P!nk's significant lead over the others in all categories fascinates me. She's probably the least discussed of the bunch on Pulse, and I don't meet many P!nk stans IRL either. Pink has the international thing too, doesn't she? Especially Australia?
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Mar 24, 2021 20:54:50 GMT -5
For anyone who says Avril is more forgotten than her "peers" (who were actually bigger on the charts than she was at that time)... Spotify Followers 10,558,136: P!nk 9,663,594: Jennifer Lopez 8,732,805: Britney Spears 7,493,860: Kelly Clarkson 7,005,908: Avril Lavigne 5,976,217: Christina Aguilera "This Is" Artist playlist followers on Spotify 792,966: P!nk 576,725: Britney Spears 426,169: Avril Lavigne 400,942: Jennifer Lopez 190,256: Christina Aguilera 164,307: Kelly Clarkson Daily Spotify Streams (Mar 23) 4.58m: P!nk 3.76m: Britney Spears 2.27m: Avril Lavigne 2.00m: Christina Aguilera 1.96m: Jennifer Lopez 1.63m: Kelly Clarkson Spotify numbers are international, correct? That would help explain some of the surprise in Avril's numbers. I recall she remained fairly popular in Japan, China, Brazil, etc. long after her peak in the US, and our discussion thus far has been fairly US-centric. P!nk's significant lead over the others in all categories fascinates me. She's probably the least discussed of the bunch on Pulse, and I don't meet many P!nk stans IRL either. They are international but China doesn't have access to Spotify. Avril did do quite well in Japan but Japan doesn't use Spotify as heavily as you would expect. I believe it's the 11th biggest Spotify market, whereas you'd expect it to be top 4 based off population/GDP (I think they still buy a lot, plus have local apps, and also use Youtube). Also, there were only a few Western artists in Japan's Top 50 most streamed artists of 2020, #21 Justin Bieber, #25 Ariana Grande, #29 Taylor Swift, #30 Ed Sheeran, #41 Billie Eilish, #45 The Chainsmokers. P!nk does have a pretty big following in Europe and Australia as her Beautiful Trauma tour proved. The only person I know that said P!nk was their favorite artist was a 40 year old female prof at my university. My sister's boyfriend likes her music too but not like a stan or anything (he's 28). Kelly Clarkson is probably the most US centric of those in terms of her fanbase. The rest though are pretty international, at least as far as the big Spotify markets are concerned (mostly Europe and Latin America). Looking at the cities that are in each artist's top 50 cities with the most listeners, and how many of those cities are in the US... Kelly Clarkson: 17/50 Avril Lavigne: 16/50 Britney Spears: 15/50 P!nk: 13/50 Christina Aguilera: 9/50 Jennifer Lopez: 9/50 So if anything, Avril's stats would appear even better if we were looking at just US Spotify streams rather than international streams, since aside from Kelly, the others all benefit more from international streams.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Mar 25, 2021 3:17:18 GMT -5
Nick's posts got me interested in looking up Avril's album stats. Here's each album version's total worldwide Spotify streams, the median streams by track, and average streams per track. (Also a link if you want to see all the different versions of each album I could find.) Title | Total | Median | Average | Link | Let Go | 933,320,990 | 15,205,203 | 71,793,922 | Link | The Best Damn Thing | 528,905,942 | 15,778,880 | 44,075,495 | Link | The Best Damn Thing (German Version) | 528,905,942 | N/A | 40,685,072 | Link | The Best Damn Thing (Deluxe Edition) | 547,841,570 | 11,049,881 | 36,522,771 | Link | Goodbye Lullaby | 452,943,874 | 11,293,399 | 32,353,134 | Link | The Best Damn Thing (Expanded Edition) | 549,382,282 | 7,740,621 | 32,316,605 | Link | Avril Lavigne | 381,825,193 | 10,707,125 | 29,371,169 | Link | Goodbye Lullaby (Deluxe Edition) | 479,067,059 | 9,762,286 | 26,614,837 | Link | Avril Lavigne (Expanded Edition) | 403,578,688 | 10,479,313 | 25,223,668 | Link | Under My Skin | 295,006,980 | 15,097,257 | 24,583,915 | Link | Head Above Water | 280,614,978 | 7,360,085 | 23,384,582 | Link | Under My Skin (Bonus Track) | 299,221,308 | 14,247,881 | 23,017,024 | Link | Goodbye Lullaby (Expanded Edition) | 473,825,696 | 8,466,682 | 22,563,128 | Link | 12" Masters: The Essential Mixes [EP] | 25,038,836 | 827,513 | 2,503,884 | Link | My World [EP] | 6,346,203 | 515,013 | 1,057,701 | Link | Control Room (Live EP) | 3,065,838 | 506,256 | 510,973 | Link | Avril Live: Try to Shut Me Up [EP] | 859,668 | 122,981 | 171,934 | Link |
The German version of The Best Damn Thing does not have a median and appears to have the same sum as the standard edition because while it has an additional track, the German version of "Girlfriend," the additional track and original version of "Girlfriend" are unfortunately combined on Spotify so I cannot determine exactly how many streams come from each track. This also unfortunately skews all version of said album as apparently all of those different language versions of "Girlfriend" are combined. I can't imagine any of them have over, like, 1 million streams though. Due to this, I also omitted the supposed Girlfriend EP listed on Spotify because, well, it would be messy as hell with 90% of the tracks being combined. Plus, since all the tracks are just different versions of the same song, I view that more as a single than an EP anyway. Also worth noting that the standard and deluxe editions of Goodbye Lullaby feature a different version of "Goodbye," containing the silence following the song that the physical CD has before the hidden extended version of "Alice." This version of "Goodbye" is grayed out for me, so it's not available in the US, but does appear to be available elsewhere. The expanded edition of the album features a version of "Goodbye" without the silence following the track and appears to be available worldwide. I also found it funny that her cover of "Bad Reputation" appears on two different albums: Goodbye Lullaby and self-titled, but on the expanded editions of both albums only. I also found two different versions of some weird combo album that had all tracks from both Let Go and Under My Skin. I omitted those as that seemed redundant. Anyway, speaking on the data itself, it's clear Let Go was her commercial peak. Its total and average are far ahead of anything else she's released. Considering it's her debut, I think that also points to a reason she is somewhat forgotten. She was never able to recreate that success in such a way to continue her legacy. Her legacy is almost exclusively that album alone with the notable exceptions of "Girlfriend" and "My Happy Ending." It is weird to see the standard edition of The Best Damn Thing wins in the median category, though, meaning it is the album with the best performing non-singles. I have to wonder why that is because I really expected that title to go to Let Go as well (which notably isn't far behind, and neither is Under My Skin for that matter).
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Mar 25, 2021 4:28:11 GMT -5
But debut album being peak does not equal she's forgotten? In fact, her later albums are very stable (obviously the stats are biased towards the two latest them being released in the middle of streaming era)
I mean one can very well say that Gaga is (relatively) forgotten because The Fame (Monster) is her most popular album even today.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Mar 25, 2021 5:15:56 GMT -5
But debut album being peak does not equal she's forgotten? In fact, her later albums are very stable (obviously the stats are biased towards the two latest them being released in the middle of streaming era) I mean one can very well say that Gaga is (relatively) forgotten because The Fame (Monster) is her most popular album even today. It's not the fact that it's her most popular, it's the fact that's far and away the biggest. That isn't the case for Gaga. (Also, without looking at the stats, I'm pretty sure ASIB is her biggest on Spotify, not TF/TFM.) Not to mention we're discussing an artist who's peak predates the streaming era by several years. Her last truly big album era was in 2007. Gaga, on the other hand, literally debuted alongside many of these streaming platforms. I remember Napster's first big promotional push as a streaming platform instead of a digital downloading platform included a television advertisement that highlighted The Fame. We can see that split in Avril's albums even. Look at her self-titled and Goodbye Lullaby. Both outperform Under My Skin on Spotify. I think everyone can agree that in no way are those albums bigger than Under My Skin, but because of their release date, their streaming stats are elevated. So, take those Let Go stats and multiply them by a hefty amount to truly get a sense of just how much bigger it is than the others. Again, I still stand by the fact that she was never able to get her legacy to grow past Let Go outside of getting two memorable hits out of "My Happy Ending" and "Girlfriend," the most recent of which is going on 14 years old at this point. And given the span between "Complicated" and "Girlfriend" was a mere 5 years, that's certainly part of the reason she isn't so easily remembered/recognized when compared to her contemporaries. Take P!nk as an example who has three clear peaks in her career with "Get the Party Started"/"Just Like a Pill," "So What," and "Just Give Me a Reason," which is a span over 10 years, twice that of Avril's, with The Truth About Love album actually managing to match or even exceed that reach of M!ssundaztood. One isn't egregiously larger than the others. And, really, Gaga is the same, which is another reason she would be a poor example to use as an argument against this assessment. Her second album, ASIB soundtrack, and SuperBowl performance are all extremely memorable moments in the pop culture zeitgeist along with The Fame/Monster with none being far and away bigger than the others. All I was getting at by posting those Spotify stats was showcasing how those stats appear to reflect this trend of her having one huge moment and then just kind of not having another one past that. The sad part is I truly believe she could have seriously cemented herself as an icon of music had she not had a bunch of weird missteps along her career path. A few others mentioned this already, but her style change with her third album definitely alienated some of her original fans. (Imagine someone like Lorde or Billie Eilish dropping something really poppy and upbeat with lyrics that contradict their current aesthetics. That's essentially what Avril gave us in 2007.) While it gave her a big hit with "Girlfriend," the album itself wasn't much of a moment for her ("When You're Gone" did decently, but "Hot" and the title track flopped and the album dropped out of popularity fairly quickly.) After that, she started taking long hiatuses in between albums, which definitely hindered her ability to have a strong comeback. Even worse, when she did return, she came back with more of that bratty poppy music that alienated people to begin with. Now, I'm pretty sure most of the reasoning behind this was because the label wanted to recreate "Girlfriend," so I can't fault Avril too much on that, but it definitely was a contributing factor. And once again, after "What the Hell" and its waning success of single following it, we were met with another hiatus, only to be broken with "Girlfriend" part 3 as a lead single to self-titled. (And even worse, both Goodbye Lullaby and self-titled have songs that weren't in that vein that could have potentially done well if they had been pushed, but they weren't and here we are.) Then after that, another long hiatus (though, this time medical issues are to blame, so I absolutely can't fault her for that, but it is an unfortunate factor to continued waning success), and when we finally got her return, it was independently created and released, so there really weren't the resources necessary to push it properly. Which is unfortunate because, finally, that bratty poppy sound was left behind (well, "Dumb Blonde" excluded) and it maybe could have done something with a proper backing support. All of this leads us to where we are now. But, as I previously stole from indulge stated earlier in the thread, the stars are actually aligning for her all of a sudden and if she plays her cards right, she could have a little renaissance in popularity. I wouldn't expect anything remotely close to the scale of 2002-2007, but at least something to spark interest in her catalog again, maybe get an old hit viral on Tik Tok (Sk8er Boi seems the most likely for that), get public perception of her to shift towards positive for the first time in, like, a decade, and allow her to score a few minor Hot AC/Alt hits before finally turning into a positively perceived legacy act. It's weird because a year or two ago, I'd believe that to be impossible for her, but damn if things aren't magically aligning! Her health is great, her old style is seeing a resurgence in modern music, she's even a featured act on a charting single that really is gaining some traction in niche markets! It's incredible!
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 25, 2021 7:26:08 GMT -5
One thing not mentioned yet is the connection to Nickelback, particularly Chad Kroeger, that was both personal and professional. He had some writing credits on the self-titled album, along with a duet between them that was released as a single. While Nickelback have their longtime fans and I feel like the βNickleback sucksβ thing is kind of overdone and old at this point, back in 2013 it was still relatively fresh so associating herself with him/them probably hurt her brand more than the continuous brat-pop lead single releases.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Mar 25, 2021 8:54:57 GMT -5
I'm screaming @ Christina being the focal point of this discussion. Poor Avril, even forgotten in her own thread! Christina gets people bothered even after all these years and basically disappearing since The Voice LMAO On that note, its also weird to think that its been more than 20 years since Britney and Christina and Pink debuted and nearly 20 years since Avril, god.
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BDGeek
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Post by BDGeek on Mar 25, 2021 17:34:54 GMT -5
A few others mentioned this already, but her style change with her third album definitely alienated some of her original fans. (Imagine someone like Lorde or Billie Eilish dropping something really poppy and upbeat with lyrics that contradict their current aesthetics. That's essentially what Avril gave us in 2007.) While it gave her a big hit with "Girlfriend," the album itself wasn't much of a moment for her ("When You're Gone" did decently, but "Hot" and the title track flopped and the album dropped out of popularity fairly quickly.) After that, she started taking long hiatuses in between albums, which definitely hindered her ability to have a strong comeback. This is where Avril's career actually has a lot of parallels with Christina's (despite my earlier claims about Christina solidifying her brand more so than Avril has). Drastic shifts in sound/image ( The Best Damn Thing and Bionic) along with big gaps between albums can make a lot of fans check out. Conversely, Britney, P!nk, and Kelly executed more gradual sound and image shifts between albums while releasing material at steadier rates (with Glory, The Truth About Love/Beautiful Trauma, and Kelly's upcoming 9th album breaking the pattern, albeit later in their careers). I think that's a big part of why their brands are arguably stronger today.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Mar 25, 2021 19:53:36 GMT -5
Nick's posts got me interested in looking up Avril's album stats. Here's each album version's total worldwide Spotify streams, the median streams by track, and average streams per track. (Also a link if you want to see all the different versions of each album I could find.) Title | Total | Median | Average | Link | Let Go | 933,320,990 | 15,205,203 | 71,793,922 | Link | The Best Damn Thing | 528,905,942 | 15,778,880 | 44,075,495 | Link | The Best Damn Thing (German Version) | 528,905,942 | N/A | 40,685,072 | Link | The Best Damn Thing (Deluxe Edition) | 547,841,570 | 11,049,881 | 36,522,771 | Link | Goodbye Lullaby | 452,943,874 | 11,293,399 | 32,353,134 | Link | The Best Damn Thing (Expanded Edition) | 549,382,282 | 7,740,621 | 32,316,605 | Link | Avril Lavigne | 381,825,193 | 10,707,125 | 29,371,169 | Link | Goodbye Lullaby (Deluxe Edition) | 479,067,059 | 9,762,286 | 26,614,837 | Link | Avril Lavigne (Expanded Edition) | 403,578,688 | 10,479,313 | 25,223,668 | Link | Under My Skin | 295,006,980 | 15,097,257 | 24,583,915 | Link | Head Above Water | 280,614,978 | 7,360,085 | 23,384,582 | Link | Under My Skin (Bonus Track) | 299,221,308 | 14,247,881 | 23,017,024 | Link | Goodbye Lullaby (Expanded Edition) | 473,825,696 | 8,466,682 | 22,563,128 | Link | 12" Masters: The Essential Mixes [EP] | 25,038,836 | 827,513 | 2,503,884 | Link | My World [EP] | 6,346,203 | 515,013 | 1,057,701 | Link | Control Room (Live EP) | 3,065,838 | 506,256 | 510,973 | Link | Avril Live: Try to Shut Me Up [EP] | 859,668 | 122,981 | 171,934 | Link |
The German version of The Best Damn Thing does not have a median and appears to have the same sum as the standard edition because while it has an additional track, the German version of "Girlfriend," the additional track and original version of "Girlfriend" are unfortunately combined on Spotify so I cannot determine exactly how many streams come from each track. This also unfortunately skews all version of said album as apparently all of those different language versions of "Girlfriend" are combined. I can't imagine any of them have over, like, 1 million streams though. Due to this, I also omitted the supposed Girlfriend EP listed on Spotify because, well, it would be messy as hell with 90% of the tracks being combined. Plus, since all the tracks are just different versions of the same song, I view that more as a single than an EP anyway. Also worth noting that the standard and deluxe editions of Goodbye Lullaby feature a different version of "Goodbye," containing the silence following the song that the physical CD has before the hidden extended version of "Alice." This version of "Goodbye" is grayed out for me, so it's not available in the US, but does appear to be available elsewhere. The expanded edition of the album features a version of "Goodbye" without the silence following the track and appears to be available worldwide. I also found it funny that her cover of "Bad Reputation" appears on two different albums: Goodbye Lullaby and self-titled, but on the expanded editions of both albums only. I also found two different versions of some weird combo album that had all tracks from both Let Go and Under My Skin. I omitted those as that seemed redundant. Anyway, speaking on the data itself, it's clear Let Go was her commercial peak. Its total and average are far ahead of anything else she's released. Considering it's her debut, I think that also points to a reason she is somewhat forgotten. She was never able to recreate that success in such a way to continue her legacy. Her legacy is almost exclusively that album alone with the notable exceptions of "Girlfriend" and "My Happy Ending." It is weird to see the standard edition of The Best Damn Thing wins in the median category, though, meaning it is the album with the best performing non-singles. I have to wonder why that is because I really expected that title to go to Let Go as well (which notably isn't far behind, and neither is Under My Skin for that matter). Here's how much those albums gained in streams yesterday. Let Go: 758,842 (+0.0813%) Under My Skin: 204,257 (+0.0683%) The Best Damn Thing: 462,032 (+0.0841%) Goodbye Lullaby: 358,921 (+0.0757%) Avril Lavigne: 212,393 (+0.0542%) Head Above Water: 154,956 (+0.0552%) The noteworthy thing for me here is that Under My Skin is probably at least as well liked by fans as Let Go and The Best Damn Thing (if the median streams are anything to go by). However the UMS singles aren't as well remembered, resulting in significantly lower streams for the album as a whole. The UMS singles also didn't chart as well back in the day so that makes sense. It's mostly the Let Go singles that are featured on Spotify curated playlists.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Mar 25, 2021 19:58:16 GMT -5
Yeah UMS is done dirty on Spotify. I figured at least "My Happy Ending" would get some playlist love, but for some reason it's still dwarfed by even "What the Hell." (3.3 million playlist reach vs 5.7 million)
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 26, 2021 2:26:45 GMT -5
Almost all of them instantly recognized her/her hits, lol.
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degen
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Post by degen on Mar 26, 2021 3:31:51 GMT -5
Wow. Never expect this thread to give all this...
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 26, 2021 8:23:04 GMT -5
If I could get a version of Let Go that cuts out Sk8er Boi and maybe replaces it with I Donβt Give, it would then be the PERFECT album.
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Post by avatar on Mar 26, 2021 11:48:46 GMT -5
The words "forgotten" and "Avril Lavigne" don't belong in the same sentence... except maybe in this case...
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Mar 26, 2021 12:31:06 GMT -5
Avril has her place in music history that won't be forgotten but it's pretty understandable between the changing musical landscape, her health and (tbhimo) the quality of the material to see why the prolific period of her career was not very long.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Mar 26, 2021 13:15:27 GMT -5
This thread is giving me like 2009 teas and I...kinda love it?
Anyway, Avril is/was pretty close to a novelty act, akin to the likes of Evanescence. Her entire persona and sound were all tied to the same anti-pop faux-punk idea that hit hard and fast (though did permeate a bit into the emo/pop/punk stuff of the mid/later 00s), and part of me thinks if she had stuck to that, she would have not necessarily had more success, but a more enduring place in music history. But then she released "Girlfriend" which did well but was terrible, and it was all downhill from there.
That said, I don't think songs like "Complicated" or (vom) "Sk8er Boi" are as "forgotten" as she herself is, or more forgotten than other similarly sized hits of that time. (Just to add to the side piece/focal point of this thread, I'm kinda thinking that those hits are more remembered than Aguilera's, but Christina herself is more remembered than Avril).
But she just wasn't really known for anything besides that all-in-one anti-pop thing. She wasn't really known for her voice, her songwriting, her performances, her tours, her non-music ventures. Combine that with really only having one big album era and, well, it just shouldn't be surprising to Pulse that pop stars fade but it always seems to be.
This is all speaking from a US perspective. She did seem to grab hold in international/Asian markets in a surprising way that keeps her stats pretty impressive, even if they don't align with her perceived American status at all.
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ampersand
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Post by ampersand on Mar 26, 2021 23:26:55 GMT -5
I am not qualified to answer this question, but my 13 year-old-self feels vindicated that Avrilβs been βforgottenβ because I remember her being shady towards my fav Kelly in the 00βs, and I was bitter about the success of βGirlfriendβ when My December was flopping.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 26, 2021 23:47:05 GMT -5
I donβt remember Avril being shady toward Kelly. I suppose it probably happened. She did co-write Breakaway though. And My December flopping was a farce. We say songs and artists are robbed a lot around here but thatβs a case where it actually was. And it impacted Kelly for years afaic.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Mar 27, 2021 0:18:06 GMT -5
This thread is giving me like 2009 teas and I...kinda love it? Anyway, Avril is/was pretty close to a novelty act, akin to the likes of Evanescence. Her entire persona and sound were all tied to the same anti-pop faux-punk idea that hit hard and fast (though did permeate a bit into the emo/pop/punk stuff of the mid/later 00s), and part of me thinks if she had stuck to that, she would have not necessarily had more success, but a more enduring place in music history. But then she released "Girlfriend" which did well but was terrible, and it was all downhill from there. That said, I don't think songs like "Complicated" or (vom) "Sk8er Boi" are as "forgotten" as she herself is, or more forgotten than other similarly sized hits of that time. (Just to add to the side piece/focal point of this thread, I'm kinda thinking that those hits are more remembered than Aguilera's, but Christina herself is more remembered than Avril). But she just wasn't really known for anything besides that all-in-one anti-pop thing. She wasn't really known for her voice, her songwriting, her performances, her tours, her non-music ventures. Combine that with really only having one big album era and, well, it just shouldn't be surprising to Pulse that pop stars fade but it always seems to be. This is all speaking from a US perspective. She did seem to grab hold in international/Asian markets in a surprising way that keeps her stats pretty impressive, even if they don't align with her perceived American status at all. I mean I don't think Avril's overseas stats are that surprising. Like ok, in Japan and China her stats are surprising, at least her historic sales. But her music seems to perform quite well in the US as far as recurrent stats go, compared to the other artists discussed here, so if other countries are more interested in America's music than America's tabloids and reality TV shows, it would make sense that the success of artists' music within the US is a better predictor of their status overseas.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Mar 27, 2021 2:54:44 GMT -5
If I could get a version of Let Go that cuts out Sk8er BoiToo Much to Ask and maybe replaces it with I Donβt Give, it would then be the PERFECT album. Ftfy
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ampersand
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Post by ampersand on Mar 27, 2021 12:18:11 GMT -5
I donβt remember Avril being shady toward Kelly. I suppose it probably happened. She did co-write Breakaway though. And My December flopping was a farce. We say songs and artists are robbed a lot around here but thatβs a case where it actually was. And it impacted Kelly for years afaic. This is what I'm thinking about mainly. IIRC, Kelly mentioned that Avril apologized years later, but Kelly wasn't sure if it was genuine. She felt the whole thing was emblematic of artists not taking her seriously at the time because she came from American Idol. And yes! #justiceformydecember
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Post by Positive Tension on Mar 28, 2021 0:03:42 GMT -5
I do remember years ago (around the Breakaway era) that when Avril was asked about Kelly and compared to her, Avril made some type of comment stating she had a "stronger personality" than her. I don't know if there was ever a feud, but she certainly could've given a more diplomatic reply.
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