degen
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Post by degen on Mar 22, 2021 1:47:33 GMT -5
She was one of the biggest female pop acts of the early-mid 2000s. But compared to Britney, Xtina, J.lo, and Pink she fell off the hardest. I rarely even hear her hits anymore. She appears to have left no lasting impact on pop culture unlike all the other ones in her era. How does “Complicated” and “I’m With You” do now in streaming and on YouTube? She had several hits that are long forgotten.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Mar 22, 2021 3:23:09 GMT -5
I would say she was totally different to those, she was more like teen rock idol, not really a pop chameleon.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 3:42:12 GMT -5
She is definitely remembered as a person and some of her biggest hits are definitely classics. Girlfriend, Complicated, Sk8er boi are all well known even amongst young people now who didn’t even grow up with those songs
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 5:03:07 GMT -5
I don't think Avril or her biggest hits are forgotten, it's just that she was the flagship artist and arguably biggest face for a sound (pop-rock) that only lasted three or four years and that hasn't been revisited in current mainstream pop since, aside from that one time Rihanna sampled I'm With You. I don't think many people would say she had a lot of impact on pop music...although ironically enough Avril has been noted as an influence on late-2010s emo hip-hop. If you don't follow that particular subgenre then it's easy to mistakenly believe she's not well remembered.
That said, she could in theory experience a resurgence in nostalgic popularity if mainstream pop ever decides it wants to revive pop-rock again. Old trends get revisited and recycled all the time so nothing is impossible.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Mar 22, 2021 5:38:15 GMT -5
I mean, I also think part of the reason is that Avril's music got objectively cringe in her self-titled 2013 album, and then, due to several reasons, she took 6 whole years to try to put out a decent album, long after everyone and their mothers had moved on from her.
In comparison, Pink was churning out hits until 2016, and even after that, she's been a touring staple. Britney also got her last top 20 hit in 2016, and her Las Vegas residency has been massively successful.
I also should note that people like Pink and Britney just have more hits than Avril, who has a total of 5 top ten singles. In comparison, Pink collected the first 6 of her 15 top ten singles during the first three years of her career. Britney Spears has two diamond albums, and has visited the top ten 13 times.
Christina Aguilera could have ended up like Avril, but kept herself relevant with extremely successful features ("Moves Like Jagger," "Say Something," "Feel This Moment") as well as her role as a judge on The Voice. She also has more than double the hits Avril has.
Jennifer Lopez's career benefits from diversifying her endeavors. Whenever people get tired of her music, she switches gears to acting. She's also a prominent figure for a minority group who were not represented in mainstream American media, another reason why she's better-remembered than someone like Avril.
Avril has bops, but she was never seen as this "incredible performer" or "unique voice" or anything like that.
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Mar 22, 2021 7:44:18 GMT -5
I CAN'T! The disrespect!!!
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Post by Private Dancer on Mar 22, 2021 17:04:01 GMT -5
Forgotten where???
Complicated, Sk8r boi, and Girlfriend are very well remembered.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Mar 22, 2021 17:13:59 GMT -5
I don't think she's forgotten at all. In fact, for someone who's had minimal mainstream success for a decade now, I'd say her hits and name recognition have held up surprisingly well.
And with the way MGK is kinda spear-heading this new resurgence back into a pop punk style, I feel like Avril's in a better spot right now than she's been in a long time to potentially make a wave again. That MOD SUN "Flames" collab that recently came out has made a decent splash already.
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Post by Private Dancer on Mar 22, 2021 17:26:51 GMT -5
She is still remembered. And she has in fact left a long lasting impact on pop culture. She is so impactf people are comparing her to Billie Eilish...and in a sense she paved the way along with Pink for the Alt-girl era's.
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Post by Koochie on Mar 22, 2021 23:03:00 GMT -5
So, first and foremost, referring to Avril as a pop act is inherently flawed. She had hits on the pop format, but it was very difficult to comfortably put her in the pop box until 2007. The 2000s was such a mess of a decade when it came to identifying a singular pop genre... calling pre-The Best Damn Thing Avril pop would be like calling Lil' Wayne's "Lollipop" a pop song.
Stark contrast to like, this whole thread, but I straight up forgot she existed and the only songs I could've named before reading off a list of them here were "Girlfriend" and, lol, "Hello Kitty". As far as alternative legacy acts who broke the pop barrier go, I wouldn't even put her on the same level as Panic! At the Disco, Fallout Boy, Kelly Clarkson (who functionally was branding herself as such until My December went straight up Evanescence-lite), Paramore, or s**t even All Time Low who more or less just got a mild hit with Demi.
Things went completely off the rails when she pivoted to "Girlfriend" and alienated her entire fanbase for it; that was functionally the beginning of the end for her. This was not her sound, this was not her image, these were not her lyrics. She got one hell of a hit, but had nothing to show for it. Compare this to Clarkson who also made a similar pivot to mainstream pop in '09, but managed to retain her two strongest selling points in the process: her lyrical content and her voice. Avril completely reimagined herself. Queue up one bad career choice after another (and a weird beef with the Kardashians) and you're left with the poster child for selling out gone wrong.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Mar 22, 2021 23:47:59 GMT -5
I hear Avril's hits at work all the time. If anyone's hits are forgotten, it's Xtina's.
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Mar 23, 2021 3:50:06 GMT -5
^Ain't that the truth. Aguilera's name is what instantly springs to mind when it comes to popstars who've fallen off. And fallen off BIG TIME.
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degen
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Post by degen on Mar 23, 2021 4:16:31 GMT -5
^Ain't that the truth. Aguilera's name is what instantly springs to mind when it comes to popstars who've fallen off. And fallen off BIG TIME. Yet Demi Lovato, Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande, Megan Trainor, Selena Gomez, Ava Max and countless of other 2010s pop female artists cite Aguilera as their influence. Not many of them cite Avril, or any of the other early 2000s girls (besides Beyonce) as a matter of fact.
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Post by Koochie on Mar 23, 2021 9:21:26 GMT -5
This thread isn’t about who fell off harder, it’s about why Avril is so forgettable. She is infinitely moreso than Christina, and I don’t even like Christina. ^Ain't that the truth. Aguilera's name is what instantly springs to mind when it comes to popstars who've fallen off. And fallen off BIG TIME. Yet Demi Lovato, Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande, Megan Trainor, Selena Gomez, Ava Max and countless of other 2010s pop female artists cite Aguilera as their influence. Not many of them cite Avril, or any of the other early 2000s girls (besides Beyonce) as a matter of fact.Britney? Hello???
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Post by Choco on Mar 23, 2021 9:34:24 GMT -5
The Best Damn Thing was a great commercial success but it also destroyed any chance she had of keeping those alternative/rock fans. Closest self-destruction I've seen was Nicki going full Pop for Roman Reloaded, but Nicki had the sense to go back to what people loved about her with The Pinkprint.
Even her biggest fans will admit that the three (or just two?) first albums had way more gems than all the others combined.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 23, 2021 9:55:21 GMT -5
Idk if I’d say Avril is forgettable or forgotten per se. I think not having had any hits in the last decade definitely keeps her out of the front of anyone’s minds but it’s not like people aren’t familiar with her. But considering her output in the 2000s, she isn’t as big as she probably could have been considering she was the biggest pop star for a couple years starting in 2002.
I agree that Girlfriend was the beginning of the end of her hitmaking days. Her second album showed signs of her creating an extended career but my guess is, because of the drop in success between than and Let Go (which was huge), there was a decision to switch back to the in-your-face persona of that era, hence Girlfriend. It may not have been her but it became her brand as every album since then was led with an in-your-face punchy pop/rock number, even if the albums themselves were tamer and more introspective and mature. (The exception is with her last album, which was lead with Head Above Water as the first single but Dumb Blonde was pushed as the pop single and it went nowhere - and the album had nothing else like that on there so it pretty well ended there).
From how I see it (and I might be wrong as my view is obviously limited on the outside) I’d say Avril’s career is a result of label interference where they saw her as someone capable of getting a quick hit, because she did it before, but for some reason, her management or whoever thought that she would stay 21 forever and appeal to 21 year olds forever rather than letting her grow and evolve in an effort to maintain her audience who themselves were already growing and evolving. Girlfriend was a lucky hit but it buried her, and it sucks because while I think Avril isn’t the best lyricist, her melodies have always been on point, even up to her latest album which was warworm after earworm.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Mar 23, 2021 10:16:56 GMT -5
^Ain't that the truth. Aguilera's name is what instantly springs to mind when it comes to popstars who've fallen off. And fallen off BIG TIME. Yet Demi Lovato, Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande, Megan Trainor, Selena Gomez, Ava Max and countless of other 2010s pop female artists cite Aguilera as their influence. Not many of them cite Avril, or any of the other early 2000s girls (besides Beyonce) as a matter of fact. yet Demi Lavato, Megan Trainor, and Selena Gomez are already forgotten too. I can't remember the last time I heard any of their hits on a greatest hits channel. Avril, on the other hand, I hear on the reg.
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Post by Koochie on Mar 23, 2021 11:16:09 GMT -5
Under My Skin was apparently her last album with Arista before she moved to RCA. The decision to move to pop was likely jointly made between Avril and the label. The Best Damn Thing was a great commercial success It debuted at #1 and went platinum, but massively underperformed Under My Skin and Let Go. “Girlfriend” was her only hit from the era. It was successful, but comparatively it underperformed (for her, anyway). Yet Demi Lovato, Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande, Megan Trainor, Selena Gomez, Ava Max and countless of other 2010s pop female artists cite Aguilera as their influence. Not many of them cite Avril, or any of the other early 2000s girls (besides Beyonce) as a matter of fact. yet Demi Lavato, Megan Trainor, and Selena Gomez are already forgotten too. I can't remember the last time I heard any of their hits on a greatest hits channel. Avril, on the other hand, I hear on the reg. do you work at Walgreens?
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Mar 23, 2021 11:19:44 GMT -5
When You’re Gone is a regular still on Canadian radio (Hot AC and AC-based stations). I don’t hear Girlfriend as much, and I don’t remember the last time I heard the other single from that album, Hot. Lol. It’s terrible how bad she was managed :( but the Lyme disease thing didn’t help either.
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Post by iHype. on Mar 23, 2021 12:48:33 GMT -5
She's definitely teetering on forgotten as a celebrity/overall artist. I cannot remember the last time I've heard the name Avril Lavigne in a conversation, on the news, at an award show, etc. OP is right with that.
She has hits that are staples, but her name is sort of with Nickelback, Kid Rock, etc as those embarrassing early 2000s memories. It comes down mainly to the fact she digressed in terms of artistry as she got older (What the Hell, Hello Kitty, Girlfriend, etc). She may have had some hidden gem album tracks but the output the public saw made them want to comfortably leave her in the early 2000s.
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Post by Choco on Mar 23, 2021 12:49:14 GMT -5
Anyways thank you to this thread for getting me to play Let Go. What an album
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Post by RoseColoredGirl on Mar 23, 2021 12:53:27 GMT -5
Yet Demi Lovato, Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande, Megan Trainor, Selena Gomez, Ava Max and countless of other 2010s pop female artists cite Aguilera as their influence. Not many of them cite Avril, or any of the other early 2000s girls (besides Beyonce) as a matter of fact. yet Demi Lavato, Megan Trainor, and Selena Gomez are already forgotten too. I'm not sure why you think this? Selena just had a huge hit last year, "Lose You To Love Me." Demi was just on "Monsters" which is still charting and it's done pretty well. Just because someone doesn't have a huge solo hit for a year doesn't mean they're completely forgotten.
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Post by Choco on Mar 23, 2021 13:04:36 GMT -5
Megan Trainor can't be forgotten because that would imply she actually had some impact.
/joking, sorta.
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degen
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Post by degen on Mar 23, 2021 13:38:37 GMT -5
yet Demi Lavato, Megan Trainor, and Selena Gomez are already forgotten too. I'm not sure why you think this? Selena just had a huge hit last year, "Lose You To Love Me." Demi was just on "Monsters" which is still charting and it's done pretty well. Just because someone doesn't have a huge solo hit for a year doesn't mean they're completely forgotten. Selena Gomez has more hits than Avril Lavigne and is a much bigger name. Dreams stays mad. Maybe in her Dreams Avril is more relevant than a Christina Aguilera and Selena Gomez.
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degen
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Post by degen on Mar 23, 2021 13:41:32 GMT -5
This thread isn’t about who fell off harder, it’s about why Avril is so forgettable. She is infinitely moreso than Christina, and I don’t even like Christina. Yet Demi Lovato, Dua Lipa, Ariana Grande, Megan Trainor, Selena Gomez, Ava Max and countless of other 2010s pop female artists cite Aguilera as their influence. Not many of them cite Avril, or any of the other early 2000s girls (besides Beyonce) as a matter of fact.Britney? Hello??? Of course Britney is relevant and not forgotten (for numerous reasons too that have nothing to do with her music), but I can honestly say she doesn’t get cited as an influence like I’ve heard artists mention Beyonce and Xtina. The girls these days like to think they can sing and write their own music, hence Britney isn’t cited as an influence as much. That’s just my observation tho.
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Post by Au$tin on Mar 23, 2021 14:18:53 GMT -5
I don't think Avril or her biggest hits are forgotten, it's just that she was the flagship artist and arguably biggest face for a sound (pop-rock) that only lasted three or four years and that hasn't been revisited in current mainstream pop since, aside from that one time Rihanna sampled I'm With You. I don't think many people would say she had a lot of impact on pop music...although ironically enough Avril has been noted as an influence on late-2010s emo hip-hop. If you don't follow that particular subgenre then it's easy to mistakenly believe she's not well remembered. That said, she could in theory experience a resurgence in nostalgic popularity if mainstream pop ever decides it wants to revive pop-rock again. Old trends get revisited and recycled all the time so nothing is impossible. And interestingly enough, I think that resurgence is indeed starting, being spearheaded by none other than... Machine Gun Kelly. (There's a statement I'd never thought I'd say.) You also have "Monsters" being massive on alt and mildly crossing over while Avril herself is currently charting on alt with a song in the same vein as those two! I truly believe her resurgence is coming. (At least in name recognition. A resurgence of her career in general is another question.)
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degen
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Post by degen on Mar 23, 2021 14:47:12 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but I just want to add if you guys think you are going to get away with saying Avril wasn’t a pop act, the joke is on you. What exactly was the difference with the music she was making in the 2000s than to Pink and Kelly Clarkson. You cannot sit here and boldly lie to me and act like “Complicated” and “I’m With You” weren’t pop songs. Her music fit right in with Pink’s “Mizundastood” era and Kelly Clarkson’s “Breakaway” era. Songs that would get ate up at both Top 40 radio and Hot AC. I would even go as far as to say that Avril was even more pop than them since they skewed her audience to teenagers. Drop the bogus narrative.
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Post by Koochie on Mar 23, 2021 14:48:30 GMT -5
This thread isn’t about who fell off harder, it’s about why Avril is so forgettable. She is infinitely moreso than Christina, and I don’t even like Christina. Britney? Hello??? Of course Britney is relevant and not forgotten (for numerous reasons too that have nothing to do with her music), but I can honestly say she doesn’t get cited as an influence like I’ve heard artists mention Beyonce and Xtina. The girls these days like to think they can sing and write their own music, hence Britney isn’t cited as an influence as much. That’s just my observation tho. I can honestly say you haven’t been paying attention. Every single artist you’ve mentioned has cited Britney as an inspiration to their music, plus other acts including Billie Elilish, Miley Cyrus, and Taylor Swift. Even artists who aren’t even in Britney’s lane like Lana Del Rey and Charlie Puth have credited her for influencing them. I’m sorry, but I just want to add if you guys think you are going to get away with saying Avril wasn’t a pop act, the joke is on you. What exactly was the difference with the music she was making in the 2000s than to Pink and Kelly Clarkson. You cannot sit here and boldly lie to me and act like “Complicated” and “I’m With You” weren’t pop songs. Her music fit right in with Pink’s “Mizundastood” era and Kelly Clarkson’s “Breakaway” era. Songs that would get ate up at both Top 40 radio and Hot AC. I would even go as far as to say that Avril was even more pop than them since they skewed her audience to teenagers. Drop the bogus narrative. I guess “In Da Club” is a pop song then since it was no different than any of the other Hip Hop songs in the Top 40 around the time Dr Dre, Timbaland, and Pharrell were thriving.
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degen
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Post by degen on Mar 23, 2021 14:49:29 GMT -5
Of course Britney is relevant and not forgotten (for numerous reasons too that have nothing to do with her music), but I can honestly say she doesn’t get cited as an influence like I’ve heard artists mention Beyonce and Xtina. The girls these days like to think they can sing and write their own music, hence Britney isn’t cited as an influence as much. That’s just my observation tho. I can honestly say you haven’t been paying attention. Every single artist you’ve mentioned has cited Britney as an inspiration to their music, plus other acts including Billie Elilish, Miley Cyrus, and Taylor Swift. Even artists who aren’t even in Britney’s lane like Lana Del Rey and Charlie Puth have credited her for influencing them. All those artists you mentioned have cited Christina as well. Including dozens more I haven’t even mentioned. Including more like Ed Sheeran, Camila Cabello, Tinashe (who cited Xtina as her influence numerous times before her duet with Britney), T.Y. Dolla Sign, etc.
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Post by Koochie on Mar 23, 2021 14:52:49 GMT -5
I can honestly say you haven’t been paying attention. Every single artist you’ve mentioned has cited Britney as an inspiration to their music, plus other acts including Billie Elilish, Miley Cyrus, and Taylor Swift. Even artists who aren’t even in Britney’s lane like Lana Del Rey and Charlie Puth have credited her for influencing them. All those artists you mentioned have cited Christina as well. Including dozens more I haven’t even mentioned. This isn’t a competition boo hunny, your initial post implied nobody got more credit than Christina and Beyoncé, which is fundamentally wrong for a lot of reasons (the list is far longer than those two). I gave one example; and believe me I could provide more examples, and more examples of artists inspired by Britney, but that wasn’t the point now was it?
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