Kelly Clarkson 'Never Again' (Now on iTunes!)

[SILENCE]

^^ maybe he had a nice shot of limoncello(spelling?) when he heard the news? LOL...

I wanted to add that I find it curious that ANY song that reaches the top 10 on Billboard can be considered a flop. The media is reporting this as a hit so the reality is no one, other than those of us radio geeks on here, know that this song is underperforming. Perception is reality in this world and the perception is that this song is another HIT for Kelly.

[un4gitible]

mugshot said:

Luke didn't get upset when he heard WYG was going to be the next single for Avril.

It hasn't come out yet, give him time ;)

[oinapead]

For Cowell she might be idol, other than that she's really boring and average as artist, now that she's got millions, she has no aim to earn money, but to show the world that she's more than puppet. And that's really great aim for a person, although she won't succeed as a creative artist, because she's the girl next door kind of type artist and that's all. She has to be happy for the success she's got already - there are millions of people in the world more talented than her, but these people are working in factories or do the cleaners job. But of course happiness is totally different subject. Actually I feel sorry for Clarkson - she has achieved everything in music she's capable for, next good thing for her might be something totally different - maybe to become a mom.

[K.]

That article made me want to root for Kelly. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. I think her quotes about writing #1s was said in anger and she wasn't really thinking. Hey, we all do that. I'd be angry too if I heard people on the phone saying I couldn't write because I'm young or a woman and I'd won writing awards.

[K.]

As for Dr.Luke, I think what he's doing on this board is exceedingly stupid. He really thinks its smart to go up against the "Kelbots" that essentially MADE him into the producer he is by supporting his songs? Not smart, Luke.

Better be careful because a fan's number one allegiance is to the artists, not the producers. That's why so many producers end up in the dirt so quickly...

[SILENCE]

For Cowell she might be idol, other than that she's really boring and average as artist, now that she's got millions, she has no aim to earn money, but to show the world that she's more than puppet. And that's really great aim for a person, although she won't succeed as a creative artist, because she's the girl next door kind of type artist and that's all. She has to be happy for the success she's got already - there are millions of people in the world more talented than her, but these people are working in factories or do the cleaners job. But of course happiness is totally different subject. Actually I feel sorry for Clarkson - she has achieved everything in music she's capable for, next good thing for her might be something totally different - maybe to become a mom.

LMAO award for the funniest post of the day goes to you, congrats...

[popmusicaddict]

toadthewetsprocket said:

For Cowell she might be idol, other than that she's really boring and average as artist, now that she's got millions, she has no aim to earn money, but to show the world that she's more than puppet. And that's really great aim for a person, although she won't succeed as a creative artist, because she's the girl next door kind of type artist and that's all. She has to be happy for the success she's got already - there are millions of people in the world more talented than her, but these people are working in factories or do the cleaners job. But of course happiness is totally different subject. Actually I feel sorry for Clarkson - she has achieved everything in music she's capable for, next good thing for her might be something totally different - maybe to become a mom.

Wow ..uhm wow! So to your analogy Mariah Carey should have been done with in 1995 and Gwen should have never had a solo career after No Doubt.

Like it or not just like Simon said Kelly is here for the LONG run, and by long run we don't mean a flawless radio record like Breakaway and then go do shows or become a mom or something and never be heard of again till the next decade. She's here to bring great quality music to our generation and she has NOT failed to do so cuz of some retarded double digit negative bullet on CHR/Pop cuz the song simply blew up too fast.

Dang, you know I really do wish the song would have climbed as slow as her other songs so that this wouldn't even be the case right now. You got people saying 'go home and be a mom or something' cuz she's stalling on a *first* single from her CD that isn't even out yet?

Damn you guys are blowing this way out of proportion. First it was funny, now its just plain sad. The fans will have the last laugh if this song goes on a comeback (which I think it will) so keep talking and wasting your energy looking absurd. Have fun with that!

[desertflower]

Looks like Kelly is getting a lot of PR about her "fight with her label." I'm not buying any of it. Anyone else think this in itself is a PR move?

Kelly's a great singer but a songwriter, you have got to be kidding me.

I didn't think so before the EW Article, but I definately think so now. I think they did have some disagreements about the album and I don't think Clive thinks much of her songwriting abilities. Now I think they took this disagreement (which is not unusal between Artists and their Labels) and blew it out of porportion to give Kelly "Cred"...and lots of free Media Hype. Before Kelly was the girl next door that is good singer...nice and sweet. Now, she is a fighter and a rebel...an Artiste fighting for her intregrity. Powerful Narrative. She was successful, but the Media wasn't all that interested in her....now everyone is talking about Kelly Clarkson.

Clive Davis is a pretty powerful man, I doubt that Kelly is so powerful that she gets him to bow to her wishes when other more successful artists have had alot of difficulty. He could have quashed this CD in 2 seconds, if he had wanted too.

But the beauty of this is it sets her up to be successful no matter how much it sells....if it sells poorly she is successful because she is being honest with her music....if it sells well Kelly comes off as a genius. Smart marketing move.

Everything an Artist does during the Promotional period has to be cleared with the Label...the EW Article didn't just happen.

And yeah she is in bed with AI again.

Oh and Simon Cowell? I wouldn't take much stock in what he says...remember what he said about Jennifer Hudson?

[un4gitible]

Well, I don't wish bad things for Luke. I've always been brutally honest with him, to his face, and try to stay out of the discussions about him (or post diplomatically) on the KCE. I tend to like most of his songs - it's his competitive attitude that gets my ire up.

I do know that Luke told me, early on, that he was the one that suggested the initial idea to Kelly the she go with one producer throughout the whole cd - and then she did just that but chose a different producer. (followed by a frowny face when he told me). Personally, I think THAT sums up the whole thing - Luke was trying to sell himself to her, to be the producer on her next cd, and she went and picked someone else and that hurt his feelings. Then when she wasn't even interested in doing one or two songs with him, he realized he'd been cut off completely and that hurt even more.

Honestly, I think the hardest part for Kelly is that it seems like she can't trust anyone, that there are so many people out to use her for their own ulterior motives. I get the impression that she's a very, very trusting person and that she expects the same type of loyalty from her friends that she gives to them. From being used by boyfriends, new friends she thought were true friends, executives she though were friends, I'm sure she's becoming as untrusting/leary in other matters as she is in romantic matters (see: BOY)

Pick the weeds and keep the flowers indeed.

[K.]

un4gitible said:

Well, I don't wish bad things for Luke. I've always been brutally honest with him, to his face, and try to stay out of the discussions about him (or post diplomatically) on the KCE. I tend to like most of his songs - it's his competitive attitude that gets my ire up.

I do know that Luke told me, early on, that he was the one that suggested the initial idea to Kelly the she go with one producer throughout the whole cd - and then she did just that but chose a different producer. (followed by a frowny face when he told me). Personally, I think THAT sums up the whole thing - Luke was trying to sell himself to her, to be the producer on her next cd, and she went and picked someone else and that hurt his feelings. Then when she wasn't even interested in doing one or two songs with him, he realized he'd been cut off completely and that hurt even more.

Honestly, I don't think the hardest part for Kelly is that it seems like she can't trust anyone, that there are so many people out to use her for their own ulterior motives. I get the impression that she's a very, very trusting person and that she expects the same type of loyalty from her friends that she gives to them. From being used by boyfriends, new friends she thought were true friends, executives she though were friends, I'm sure she's becoming as untrusting/leary in other matters as she is in romantic matters (see: BOY)

Pick the weeds and keep the flowers indeed.

Wow, this post kind of made me depressed. That's sad.

[un4gitible]

desertflower said:

I didn't think so before the EW Article, but I definately think so now. I think they did have some disagreements about the album and I don't think Clive thinks much of her songwriting abilities. Now I think they took this disagreement (which is not unusal between Artists and their Labels) and blew it out of porportion to give Kelly "Cred"...and lots of free Media Hype. Before Kelly was the girl next door that is good singer...nice and sweet. Now, she is a fighter and a rebel...an Artiste fighting for her intregrity. Powerful Narrative. She was successful, but the Media wasn't all that interested in her....now everyone is talking about Kelly Clarkson.

I don't think any of this would have come to light if a certain someone hadn't spewed all about it all over the internet *coughdrlukecough* I think he opened the pandora's box and left Kelly no choice but to discuss the matter honestly and openly or let the rumor and speculation run wild.

Will the publicity work for her? Maybe - but she sure didn't need any controversy to sell 11M copies of Breakaway worldwide. I would think that being one of the, if not THE, most anticipated albums of the summer would have been buzz enough. I just don't see enough added benefit of a scandal, not to mention the gamble that is in how the public will react, for them to go that route. JMO

We all knew she had to fight for songs on Thankful and Breakaway also, have known that for a long time. The media never ran with that however because it wasn't really discussed in length, nor was it presented in a negative manner all over the internet. Once again, I think it's something that was let out of the box, to stroke someone's ego, and that ego wasn't Kelly OR Clives IMO.

Let's put it this way - when someone comes right out and says that the failure of NA (and ultimately the failure of the cd as a whole) could mean great things for him, uh, yeah, it leaves little doubt in my mind that that person is rooting for that songs failure and might even do whatever they can to try and assist that in happening.

[desertflower]

She sold 11 Million copies of Breakaway because it was a great album, with great songs and good videos. And Kelly was very lucky. The music connected with people. Those kind of albums are pretty rare, no matter who you are.

The key to the success of My December will be whether she can do that again. So far that is in doubt given the success of Never Again. Hopefully she has better songs on the album. It takes more than die-hard fans to make an album a success.

But frequently when an Artist is supersuccessful with on album...the follow-up isn't as successful.....sometimes it tanks. Not saying this will happen, just saying that it does happen. It's almost like people get burned out on that Artist. Look what happened to Celine Dion and "My Heart Will Go On" or Outcast with their latest album.

[un4gitible]

I agree desertflower. There are NO guarantees in life so I say, if there was a good chance the cd wouldn't be as successful as Breakaway regardless, why not take a little risk and put out a cd that the artist singing is 100% happy with?

Moving away from a formula that works for you is risky, but sometimes you have to take that risk. Madonna always takes risks and she's been able to parlay that into a very long, very successful career. So yeah, sometimes it works.

[carriefan0209]

i just read that article..major props to kelly for being so courageous for 'stickin it to the man'!

however....one thing that kinda annoyed me was the major ego increase she has had. i mean, she practically took all the credit for BOY and other songs, and she seems to have this convoluted attitude that she alone is responsible for her success, not the producers, writers, etc..... hopefully this is not a permanent attitude, because the worst type of artist is the one that thinks he/she can do no wrong....

and she says the s-word alot. lol. alot alot. weird....major personality shift from the girl who won AI....well people change, and hopefully her change is for the best...

[pyrates]

^^ Uh, where did you see this ego increase? She just said that after her last album, that she should have earned some credibility from her label, but that they were still treating her like sh*t. Insulting her by saying that she couldn't write because she was a "young woman", dismissing her because of her age and gender. That would piss me off too.

She isn't saying that she is a better writer than everybody else, just that this is her story to tell, and she'd like to be the one to tell it. She knows it won't sell as well, but she accepts that.

And she said sh*t/cowsh*t how is that a personality change? She's 25 she can swear if she wants to. She swore on Breakaway.

Here's part 2 of the EW video:
www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,20038840_20039067,00.html

Kelly looks goregeous in the photoshoot clips. The James Franco bit was cute and I think everyone should be pro-cookie. :)


And here's her Blender interview:

[ba19]

am i missing something...what is going on with dr.luke/kelly...and why when i read this page does it seem like dr.luke goes on here?

[Focus]

ba19 said:

am i missing something...what is going on with dr.luke/kelly...and why when i read this page does it seem like dr.luke goes on here?

Dr. Luke posts here at Pulse, so it's probably best to ask him what's going on with him and Kelly.

[OUcultjam]

carriefan0209 said:

however....one thing that kinda annoyed me was the major ego increase she has had. i mean, she practically took all the credit for BOY and other songs, and she seems to have this convoluted attitude that she alone is responsible for her success, not the producers, writers, etc.....

I think she does deserve the full credit for BOY; I don't know any details about the others.

Way back on Dec. 2, 2005, David Hodges posted the following comment on his message board, and I think it says a lot considering he gets writing credit on BOY and Addicted.

"That was a fun project to work on. so you know, however the media will try to spin it, kelly wrote those songs. ben and i put some finishing touches on the writing, but "because of you" and "addicted" are so much her. i don't know how much other artists really write on the records that they "co-write" on, but kelly really is an amazing writer."

[doodlebug]

I thought it was against the rules to attack other posters, instead of having opinions about the posts. The attacks on Dr Luke have been pretty ridiculous. He doesn't owe anyone here an explanation of what he has done as a professional and I would seriously think the man has a lot more knowledge of what has gone on than a bunch of OTT fans who don't even know Kelly. Sorry but you all are not looking very considerate or appropriate either with your bashing of him.

With all the latest stuff continuing to come out I must say I believe it's one of 2 scenarios and there are lots of points that can be made for either. Either 1) RCA/Clive is putting the screws to Kelly or don't have faith in her, which they are entitled to think and feel or 2) it is a bizarre PR stunt to build up the hype she doesn't normally have.

The CD is different and may have turned off a lot of people who wanted more of same, so this way they try to entice them back in with the artistic growth BS and how she had to fight and everyone should jump on the bandwagon of fighter Kelly. She already has attempted on the last CD to make herself into the girl's lib type, putting down guys and getting revenge in several songs. This CD seems to continue on that way, only rougher and darker at the same time. She is getting way more attention on the internet, blogs, gossip sites, magazines, show coverage and even talk shows than she ever got before. Yeah, it could be a tremendous marketing ploy, after all she does have the "best management firm around" as some like to claim and say (which they certainly are one of them). They were the ones who didn't want her on AI the last 2 years, but now she is on 2 times in a month. Yeah, strategy has changed dramatically. Her interviews are full of attitude now, frequent talking of drinking and bar scenes, curse words, tough talk. All to change the "sweet girl next door" to the rebel with a cause, the fighter, the "joan of arc." What a hoot that line is. Really Kelly, quit taking yourself so high cause the higher you go the farther the fall. She is really making a new image for herself, and not everyone is liking it or buying it. Sorry that her fans don't like or appreciate that thought but I have been reading it more and more and it's not just a few who are saying it and they aren't all just a bunch of "fans of others" or AI people. She is making waves and not all are going to be on her side or see her as a victim.

[Focus]

OTT? ???
Does it have to be one of two scenario's?
I pick scenario 3. She's telling the truth about what happened and her feelings about it. She's talking truthfully about her album's songs and her feelings about them.

[ba19]

oh i didnt even know dr. luke posted here..and i dont really need to ask what was/is goin on between them...i just thought sumthing was posted pages ago that i missed or something.

[Jamie]

All to change the "sweet girl next door" to the rebel with a cause, the fighter, the "joan of arc." What a hoot that line is. Really Kelly, quit taking yourself so high cause the higher you go the farther the fall.

There are many people, both critics and posters here, who mention Kelly as a top seller and someone who can move units and include her in a group of the bigger artists releasing who can "save the industry." She said she doesn't want to be that (Joan of Arc), the only people setting her up for a big fall are people who elevate her to that level and put her on a pedestal, yet she continues to say she doesn't want to be there & doesn't care if this is a monster seller and has tons of hits. Yeah that's a huge ego right there.

[Girls, girls, girls, girls...]

OMG, some of you try to turn Kelly into some kind of a martyr... Say that she can't trust anyone, that people let her down... Well, guess what? It happens to all of us. It happens to me, it happens to you, it happens to Madonna, to Britney, to Christina etc. I bet a lot of people here were laughing at Britney's bizzare behaviour and now that Kelly says she's depressed or something, some of you act like it's the end of the world and 'feel for her'. I mean, she's a fab popstar and has some cracking tunes, but to turn her into some kind of a saint is stupid.

[SILENCE]

however....one thing that kinda annoyed me was the major ego increase she has had. i mean, she practically took all the credit for BOY and other songs, and she seems to have this convoluted attitude that she alone is responsible for her success, not the producers, writers, etc..... hopefully this is not a permanent attitude, because the worst type of artist is the one that thinks he/she can do no wrong....

and she says the s-word alot. lol. alot alot. weird....major personality shift from the girl who won AI....well people change, and hopefully her change is for the best...

huh? where does Kelly have a huge ego? and she wrote BOY when she was 16....why shouldn't she get credit for that? hell that song was good enough that a country LEGEND wanted to record it! That's pretty damn impressive IMO.

and LOL at making a big deal out of Kelly saying s**t.... it's not like she's spewing the f bomb everywhere like other artists I've seen. and even if she were, so what? she's a real person not some saint who has to ask WWJD all the time.

OMG, some of you try to turn Kelly into some kind of a martyr... Say that she can't trust anyone, that people let her down... Well, guess what? It happens to all of us. It happens to me, it happens to you, it happens to Madonna, to Britney, to Christina etc. I bet a lot of people here were laughing at Britney's bizzare behaviour and now that Kelly says she's depressed or something, some of you act like it's the end of the world and 'feel for her'. I mean, she's a fab popstar and has some cracking tunes, but to turn her into some kind of a saint is stupid.

just like it's stupid to try to turn Kelly into an egotistical villian because she wants credit for her creative achievements and wants to be able to do the music SHE wants to do. Kelly's not a martyr, and I don't see anyone saying she is....but the truth is she's had A LOT happen to her in the five years she's been in this business, and it was all at a breakneck speed too boot. I didn't read where Kelly said she's depressed, is that more creative interpretation going on?

eta: I wonder how people would have felt had their favorite artist spoken openly about the issues they had with Clive and Co. Seems to me there's just a touch of hypocrisy going on to say it's all just PR moves to get Kelly buzz when most saying that have first hand knowledge of the damage Clive can cause IF he wants to....

I'm just thankful (no pun) that Kelly didn't cave and agree to record a cover album just to put out an album because an album was expected of her.

To me, Kelly's has shown great courage in speaking out on what's been happening. Many artists speak out when these things happen, they aren't seen as egotistical so why is Kelly? Is she required to maintain a certain "image" to please people who truth be told, will never be pleased? I don't think so.

On Breakaway many said she "sold out" went to commerical just to sell records....said she lost weight to fit in, etc.. and now that she's gone the opposite those same people are saying that she's wrong to not follow the formula, that if she wants to sell she needs to lose weight, etc.... LOL... the rate at which some people change their opinion just to fit their agenda to hate on Kelly amazes me it also amuses the crap out of me so please keep it up...

[OUcultjam]

How can a song that's #2 on ratethemusic/mediabase top 40 callouts be at the bottom of the callouts that RCA's getting back? And have lost its bullet before entering the top 20?

ratethemusic.com by Mediabase
Top 40 (12+) Week ending May 10, 2007

Rank By Sorted Column, Title Artist, 12+ Pop (Fam), Fam%, Burn% (Fam)
1 U + Ur Hand Pink 4.06 97 28
2 Never Again Kelly Clarkson 4.05 82 10
3 Home Daughtry 3.97 92 20
4 Makes Me Wonder Maroon 5 3.92 90 15
5 It's Not Over Daughtry 3.85 98 46
6 Girlfriend Avril Lavigne 3.84 97 29
7 Give It To Me Timbaland f/ Nelly Furtado & Justin Timberlake 3.82 95 30
8 Face Down Red Jumpsuit Apparatus 3.82 86 27
9 Summer Love Justin Timberlake 3.78 89 22
10 Thnks Fr Th Mmrs Fall Out Boy 3.76 74 13
11 Before He Cheats Carrie Underwood 3.75 93 37
12 If Everyone Cared Nickelback 3.74 96 36
13 The Sweet Escape Gwen Stefani 3.63 99 49
14 Glamorous Fergie f/ Ludacris 3.63 98 47
15 Say It Right Nelly Furtado 3.58 97 50
16 Better Than Me Hinder 3.58 87 27
17 What Goes Around Comes Around Justin Timberlake 3.56 99 58
18 Cupid's Chokehold Gym Class Heroes 3.54 97 48
19 Because Of You Ne-Yo 3.52 90 30
20 Umbrella Rihanna f/ Jay-Z 3.50 87 23
21 Beautiful Liar Beyonce & Shakira 3.48 95 30
22 Boston Augustana 3.45 89 39
23 Don't Matter Akon 3.36 98 48
24 I Tried Bone Thugs-N-Harmony f/ Akon 3.36 69 20
25 Ice Box Omarion 3.26 89 40
26 Last Night Diddy f/ Keyshia Cole 3.19 84 34
27 Buy U A Drank (Shawty Snappin') T-Pain f/ Yung Joc 2.91 66 28
28 The Way I Live Baby Boy Da Prince f/ Lil Boosie 2.90 75 37
29 This Is Why I'm Hot Mims 2.87 96 56
30 Lost Without U Robin Thicke 2.70 84 44

[desertflower]

and LOL at making a big deal out of Kelly saying s**t.... it's not like she's spewing the f bomb everywhere like other artists I've seen. and even if she were, so what? she's a real person not some saint who has to ask WWJD all the time.

Kelly said she is a devout Christian (per LA Times Interview) I would bet she, on occasion, asks WWJD.

Shannon, it would be real nice for conversation purposes if you would stop the passive-aggressive swipes. This thread is about Kelly isn't it?

[Focus]

Is swearing a sin? I'm not really religious so I don't know.

I like her even better now though..lol. And I loved her before. I swore in front of her by accident once, I felt like an idiot. I'm over that now. :)

[un4gitible]

It's ok, doodlebug, that person posting here isn't the REAL doctor Luke anywho. Didn't you hear? When David asked him why he was smearing Kelly and her cd all over the internet he said he wasn't and that a hater hacked his account and was posting as him.

I think Kelly is a devout christian but heck, I've heard priests/pastors/etc use the occassional swear word. Isn't she talking about s**t, the bodily function (as in cows**t) and not s**t as in s**t!? Kind of like Hell, the place, vs hell as in what the hell? Of course F**k is bad no matter how you use it - even though I've been known to let all those words fly, good or bad, a time or two. *shrug* If that makes her a sell-out, add her to the long list of devout christians who cuss from time to time (pssssst, you might be better off attacking the F**k she let fly during NA at Wango Tango ;) )

I bet most devout christians have used the random cuss word from time to time? If that's the worst thing they do in their lives, I'm pretty sure they will still go to heaven heh

Oh, and wth is OTT ???

[desertflower]

I'm not religious either Focus, but I do think it is frowned upon.

I was responding to Shannon..err MyReflection. and her comment about WWJD. I cuss some alot sometimes, depending on the circumstance. ;)

[OUcultjam]

un4gitible said:

It's ok, doodlebug, that person posting here isn't the REAL doctor Luke anywho. Didn't you hear? When David asked him why he was smearing Kelly and her cd all over the internet he said he wasn't and that a hater hacked his account and was posting as him.

I think Kelly is a devout christian but heck, I've heard priests/pastors/etc use the occassional swear word. Isn't she talking about s**t, the bodily function (as in cows**t) and not s**t as in s**t!? Kind of like Hell, the place, vs hell as in what the hell? Of course F**k is bad no matter how you use it - even though I've been known to let all those words fly, good or bad, a time or two. *shrug* If that makes her a sell-out, add her to the long list of devout christians who cuss from time to time (pssssst, you might be better off attacking the F**k she let fly during NA at Wango Tango ;) )

Oh, and wth is OTT ???

LOL! I enjoyed reading that. BTW, I think OTT = over the top