realnewlight
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Post by realnewlight on Jun 3, 2007 18:32:16 GMT -5
A hit? Really.. I would agree this is not a "flop" but calling it a hit is a bit of a stretch IMO.
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Jeff
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Post by Jeff on Jun 3, 2007 18:44:17 GMT -5
So what is a hit? Top 10 on the hot 100, top 5 on Pop... almost top 20 on Top 40, nearly Top 10 on AC... What is a hit? It's not a #1 smash no, but it's far from a flop, it's a hit in todays standards.
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Felicia
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Post by Felicia on Jun 3, 2007 18:45:56 GMT -5
So can I argue that 'Control Myself' by LL Cool J & JLo is a mega smash hit since it peaked No. 3 on Hot 100? 'Never Again' flopped, or at least, it underperformed. It didn't even hit Top 20 on CHR/Pop.
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realnewlight
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Post by realnewlight on Jun 3, 2007 18:52:34 GMT -5
Well everybody has a different defenition of "hit" and all of them are fair...
But lets be clear...the only reason it made top 10 on the hot 100 and top 5 on the Pop 100 (which i assume is what you are talking about when you say pop?) is because of digital sales...and the main reason their was such high digital sales is because it was the first single from a big artist. If Never Again is considered a hit, then basically every first single from a big artist will be a hit in the digital era, because every big artist is going to have strong first single digital sales.
I do not think that songs like De Ja Vu and Wind it Up (which both out performed Never Again) are going to go down as hits in history, and neither is Never Again.
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niceguy
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Post by niceguy on Jun 3, 2007 19:09:24 GMT -5
Deja Vu did well everywhere. It had over 100 million audience impressions.
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Patches
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Post by Patches on Jun 3, 2007 20:05:19 GMT -5
Deja Vu did well everywhere. It had over 100 million audience impressions. LMAO !
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Bluesy
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Post by Bluesy on Jun 3, 2007 20:18:07 GMT -5
I really don't understand why it's SO HARD for some people to just admit that Kelly Clarksons single flopped. Why is it so hard to say it? What's it to you? No one owes you any explanations.
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 3, 2007 20:33:04 GMT -5
I am equally perplexed by the almost OBSESSIVE NEED that some feel to MAKE the Kelly fans admit to something they don't believe. Seriously, will you be able to sleep better at night if we agree with you? will you win some phantom pool on how long it took for us to admit this? It's getting just a tad old seeing the repeated negative comments. We GET IT...you and a few others believe this song is a flop....but the media and the public in general view this song as a HIT. Regardless of what OUR view or even YOUR view is when MD hits the stores you can bet it'll have a sticker on it that says INCLUDING THE SMASH HIT NEVER AGAIN! because the PERCEPTION is that a song that debuts in the top 10 of the Hot 100 IS in fact a hit.
This song has held it's own pretty well for the last 6 weeks...both on itunes and on mediabase...while other songs dropped spins in the 1000s NA, while it dropped to be sure, it dropped at a slower rate and it's eventually stopped dropping and seems in fact to be either leveling off or gaining (I can't tell which) It had a negative bullet on Hot AC and now it's in the positive again so I'm not sure WHY we should admit this song is a flop when it's STILL within the realm of possibility that this song could in fact reach the top 10 or better on SOME radio play chart, be it Pop (which is truly doubtful) or HOT AC (which is much more likely).
I just think there are certain people here who want desparately for this song to be a flop....They wanted it before the song was ever even heard.... and they've been pushing that agenda ever since.
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JayBoozer
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Post by JayBoozer on Jun 3, 2007 20:50:31 GMT -5
LMAO at niceguy. You only give like one to two sentence, blanket statement posts. Are you a joke?
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 20:51:23 GMT -5
The song is an airplay flop. I dont know how a single person could deny that unless they love Kelly so much they cannot admit it. Overall flop...that is debatable and I would lean towards no just because sales have held so steady. And you picked on like...two examples of artists that have done ok without tons of airplay. Does anyone REALLY think that Kelly's album will sell anything over 2 million with no airplay? And Im even being generous with 2 million? Do you think she is that invincible? Well, she is not, and claiming that she is does nothing for her. If anything, believing your artist is invincible does a disservice to them. Any artist can flop at any point. Breakaway sold 6 million after 5 massive airplay hits. Most albums need a solid airplay hit to sell. Its not being a basher or a hater to point out that she will probably need an airplay hit to really push this album in sales. You are not doing her any favors by denying that Kelly could ever falter.
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niceguy
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Post by niceguy on Jun 3, 2007 20:53:37 GMT -5
LMAO at niceguy. You only give like one to two sentence, blanket statement posts. Are you a joke? No, but that frivelish hooker in your avatar sure is. :) :)
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Kid Pulse
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Post by Kid Pulse on Jun 3, 2007 20:55:09 GMT -5
LMAO at niceguy. You only give like one to two sentence, blanket statement posts. Are you a joke? No, but that frivelish hooker in your avatar sure is. :) :) \ You're a joke.
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 3, 2007 21:01:59 GMT -5
A song that rebounds into the top 10 on the Hot 100 after already being out for 7 weeks is not "over", by any stretch. The "Hype of her being a big name" would be well over with within 3 weeks if the song really did bomb. The only format where this is underpreforming is CHR/Pop Airplay - period. I don't remember any of those other 'flops' you mentioned selling so constantly and rebounding like that, do you? Another pet peeve is the whole 'OMGZ IT DIDN'T EVEN MAKE TOP 20' to try and rub it in or something. When it actually did on Billboard Top 40 Airplay (R&R) and when it peaked on Mediabase it had 3550+ spins (enough to make it #18 right now) so all that is such a useless point. Just say it underpreformed compared to her Breakaway singles and let it be at that.
Don't use Idol as the full reason either, if that was the case than Carrie's and Gwen song woulda hit / rebounding to top 10 as well.
Kelly fans have already admitted it was an airplay flop or its over at airplay, others choose to think its still got some fight. I don't see why others are complaining that Kelly fans won't give it a rest, when in actuality its the others who aren't giving it a rest and keep bringing up this tired old crap.
Basically this page is useless, next.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:09:46 GMT -5
Idol was the main reason for the rebound, but it obviously rebounded more because it was already selling well. (Hence, it started a lot higher so a boost helped her a lot). But, no one is saying sales are bad. We are saying that the airplay (unless there is a miracle like that has never occured in HISTORY) will not push this album to acceptable sales. That to sell well, 99.999999% of the time an album needs a genuine airplay hit, and Never Again will never, ever be a genuine airplay hit. Ever. Ever. Its harsh, but its true. And I think if this were any other artist, most of you would be saying the same thing without hesitation, thought, or coming up with ways it IS an airplay hit.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:10:21 GMT -5
Oh, and Carrie's song was taken off Itunes or it most certainly would have rebounded a LOT.
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niceguy
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Post by niceguy on Jun 3, 2007 21:11:04 GMT -5
I think that Kelly's album will sell 890k first week.
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Post by ruby1 on Jun 3, 2007 21:11:17 GMT -5
Erm i guess no -99 huh??? Well wateva!! im sexy and i do watever i want... lol
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:15:27 GMT -5
I think that Kelly's album will sell 890k first week. I would pee myself (in a good way) Right now I am hoping for 500-600K
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 3, 2007 21:19:20 GMT -5
I'm not calling it an airplay hit LPL, but some people are acting like its the worst thing Kelly's ever released on airplay when its not and are exaggerating like hell. Erm i guess no -99 huh??? Well wateva!! im sexy and i do watever i want... lol Nah girl lol, but good vibes - you got it down to almost -300ish (my guess) I think that Kelly's album will sell 890k first week. Wow Kelly busted into the urban market and we didn't know it! I knew she was being exposed to Country with Reba but DAMN. Or maybe your just staying true to your screen name lol (*cough no way 900k is happening lol, I don't even think that will be 50 and Kelly's combined first weeks)
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niceguy
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Post by niceguy on Jun 3, 2007 21:27:46 GMT -5
Can you guys be any more negative?
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:28:28 GMT -5
No, thats definitely true pop. Its not a complete disaster by any means. And the fact that it is slowly falling proves even more that people do like it. But I am concerned with the long term. I want to buy Kelly cds 20 years from now. I think directly relevant to her creating and releasing cds 20 years from now is building her "resume" of pop stardom. To me, that comes from building together a string of hit albums and a chain of hit songs. I just really want her to have at least one genuine hit from this album and I think thats important to the overall success of the album which in turn may affect the overall success of her career. A year from now, I want her to be in the top 50 on the sales chart, not off the charts 3 months ago Though, I think she has achieved a point of stardom that the right song, even if not from this album and even if this album flops, will propel her back to stardom again. An underperformance from one single most certainly does not guarantee the death of this album or her career...hell, even the album underperforming will not guarantee that.
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kellyfan1232
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Post by kellyfan1232 on Jun 3, 2007 21:28:50 GMT -5
It's not a flop or a hit, imo.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:29:37 GMT -5
Can you guys be any more negative? Yes. KELLY IS OVAH!! OVAH!!!!!!! NEVER AGAIN IS THE BIGGEST FLOP OF THE CENTURY! THEY SHOULD NOT EVEN RELEASE THE FLOPPITY FLOP FLOP CD!!!! There Btw-Im not trying to pick any fights. Im not pissed or bashing anyone, especially not Kelly. Im just frustrated with how some people are acting on the fan side and the non fan side.
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realnewlight
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Post by realnewlight on Jun 3, 2007 21:31:02 GMT -5
I just think that Kelly's first single was one of the most hyped and anticipated pop singles to hit pop radio in a LONG time...as shown by the insane bullet right off the bat...and for a song with that many expectations, it REALLY underperformed, and it is normal that many people are going to react to that on a music discussion board.
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 3, 2007 21:31:24 GMT -5
Can you guys be any more negative? Excuse you lol, we are the ones being positive and not giving up on the song but really man, I mean no offense but those are some seriously inflated CD sale numbers. As much as Kelly sold digitally I think its also telling us people want to listen a little more before out and out buying the album. Even with 50 cents run , people are thinking he's past his prime so I think people are gonna want to hear more before rushing out for his album too. As well as all the things with the market not being the same. All those things come into factor. Hoping to sell half a mill or 600k *IS* being extremely positive lol, your numbers are just ..no offense - out and out unrealistic :(
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jun 3, 2007 21:33:01 GMT -5
This song did extremely well. Why are people here saying its a flop? Anything that goes Top 40 is a hit. Period.
Not really. This song can be said to be a hit in general terms but when comparing it to her past 5 singles, and even compared to pretty much anything else when looking at the broader picture of the situation of each single (for example, 'The Trouble With Love Is' didn't do well but it was also a third single and a followup to a non-so-big-hit as well, wasn't it?). Considering this is a leadoff song for a highly anticipated album, I think calling it a "flop" is pretty justifiable. However, I think right now, longevity could help carry the song beyond "flop" status.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:36:30 GMT -5
Oh, and I dont see anyone hitting 900K this year with an album. Well, MAYBE MAYBE during the holiday season if someone surprises me, but for the most part, no. I think 700K is about the highest we will see this year and the standard HUGE opening will be more like 550-650K. That being said, I would be thrilled if she sold over 500K, ok if she sold over 400K, disappointed if she sells much under that.
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 3, 2007 21:37:46 GMT -5
No, thats definitely true pop. Its not a complete disaster by any means. And the fact that it is slowly falling proves even more that people do like it. But I am concerned with the long term. I want to buy Kelly cds 20 years from now. I think directly relevant to her creating and releasing cds 20 years from now is building her "resume" of pop stardom. To me, that comes from building together a string of hit albums and a chain of hit songs. I just really want her to have at least one genuine hit from this album and I think thats important to the overall success of the album which in turn may affect the overall success of her career. A year from now, I want her to be in the top 50 on the sales chart, not off the charts 3 months ago Though, I think she has achieved a point of stardom that the right song, even if not from this album and even if this album flops, will propel her back to stardom again. An underperformance from one single most certainly does not guarantee the death of this album or her career...hell, even the album underperforming will not guarantee that. Well that's kinda what I was saying before. I really think they are saving the hit on the album like seen with many long running successful artists recently (no reason to repeat em again). Again I hate to say it cuz it upsets both fans and non-fans but "Never Again" might just be a heater track if you will that the label never expected to be really successful, an 'opener track' if you will to grab attention. And how well its selling digitally, mission accompished. I for one won't be surprised if her next single is just a total smash. That being said, I'm still the stubborn few who think it will have longevity both digitally and on airplay till the next single. Also another thing to remember when comparing this to Thankful singles run is this song is already more successful than "Low and TTWLI". Back then 3500ish spins justified top 15 position (which Low was , and TTWLI didn't even make) and the other major point is neither of those songs got the Hot AC play that Never Again did , not even close nor did they even sell digitally like NA. Therefore for these people saying its her worst, really really are wrong.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 3, 2007 21:39:52 GMT -5
And maybe not just a heater track, but a track to keep Kelly happy. I believe she wanted this one first, no? She gets her single, and the label gets theirs next.
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 3, 2007 21:41:25 GMT -5
And maybe not just a heater track, but a track to keep Kelly happy. I believe she wanted this one first, no? She gets her single, and the label gets theirs next. Yep, that would be correct and make sense as well. Kelly is the boss of this album, said by her producer several times.
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