sunpeach
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Post by sunpeach on Jun 4, 2007 0:31:01 GMT -5
What's done is done, you know? There are no time machines around to change anything. I have heard some of the other songs on the album and I am confident in them so I am not at all worried anymore about the sales of "Never Again." I was before, but that's because I had not gotten a glimpse of what else was on the album- that was the only thing that worried me- but no more- the rest of it sounds solid to me. And sometimes the first single off an album is not so strong but it doesn't affect things. I remember when Michael Jackson released "I can't stop loving you" which was pretty bad but managed to make number one on his momentum but there was a good conscensus it was not a great song at all and it did have people a bit antsy about "Bad"- but the album totally delivered after that.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jun 4, 2007 0:56:20 GMT -5
^what is that supposed to mean? There are hardly any arguments in Pink's threads and there is certainly not repetition. facts are posted and people reply. what does who i have in my avatar and signature have to do with anything? do you have ADD or something or some other disease you were forced by society to have contracted? ADD? nice personal attack, lol. I think he's just saying that there have been 4 threads of U + Ur Hand saying how much of a smash it is. Granted it was a sleeper hit and took a while to get to the top, but every thread just repeated the notion that everyone was so glad that it ended up doing so well . Precisely-it wasnt meant as a bash to Pink fans (of whom I am friends with many of them) or Pink herself (of which I own every album from)
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Peach
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Post by Peach on Jun 4, 2007 1:01:18 GMT -5
^what is that supposed to mean? There are hardly any arguments in Pink's threads and there is certainly not repetition. facts are posted and people reply. what does who i have in my avatar and signature have to do with anything? do you have ADD or something or some other disease you were forced by society to have contracted? ADD? nice personal attack, lol. I think he's just saying that there have been 4 threads of U + Ur Hand saying how much of a smash it is. Granted it was a sleeper hit and took a while to get to the top, but every thread just repeated the notion that everyone was so glad that it ended up doing so well . Actually...there have been FIVE U + Ur Hand threads.
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 4, 2007 6:07:15 GMT -5
it seems to me that the "haters" are as invested, if not more so, in this song flopping than the fans are in this song being a hit.....I understand the latter but not the former. WHY does it matter SO much to the likes of legendtina, getreal, and various others in here that this song be labeled a flop. If you want to consider it a flop that is your right, go for it. Neither I nor anyone else in this thread MUST agree with you and continuing to beat us over the head with your opinion only bogs down the thread and causes roundrobin arguments that never really solve anything or change anyone's mind.
The song will show as being #26 on this weeks chart, down two spots with a -406 bullet. That's a pretty slow dropping song for a total flop IMO. If it were truly a total flop wouldn't it be completely out of the top 40 by now?
it's at #6 on itunes, in front of Home which is currently #5 on the pop/chr chart....I guess someone REALLY needs to explain to me HOW that's possible for a song that people think is a flop. I mean NO song got more promo than Home this year...it was played for 30 million people every week and it's got a +529 bullet and 39 million in audience impressions.... so sorry if I don't believe that this song is performing "poorly" on itunes considering it's massive promotion...cuz if that's the case Home is selling like crap and should be embarassed by it's sales.
I can't wait for the morning update to see where her bullet is.... I hope it's lower than -400....I'm hoping for somewhere around -350 or below... and a higher + bullet on Hot AC. I think Hot AC is going to be where this song has the most success, and I think that's where MOST of Kelly's singles this time around will see the most success. Her songs IMO are just too deep for pop radio right now.... they want empty fluff and judging from the lyrics and the snippets we've heard that's nothing like that on this upcoming album.
eta:
would it be too offensive to your NEED to declare this song a flop to remind you that NA hasn't EVER fallen OUT of the top 20 on the BB hot 100 and it's been there for 5 or 6 weeks......it jumped from 17 to 9 last week if memory serves.... so there goes your argument legendtina....
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jun 4, 2007 6:12:15 GMT -5
This song is a Total Flop @ Pop Radio! On the Hot 100 this song is a bonafide hit single because it hit the Top 20.
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pyrates
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Post by pyrates on Jun 4, 2007 6:13:00 GMT -5
Pop: 24 26 KELLY CLARKSON Never Again 2007 RCA/RMG 2193 2523 -330 12.721
Hot AC: 12 13 KELLY CLARKSON Never Again 2007 RCA/RMG 1632 1599 33 7.524
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 4, 2007 6:14:40 GMT -5
don't you mean top 10? LOL YAY!!! time to change my glad game woo hoo!!
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jun 4, 2007 6:15:44 GMT -5
I heard this on the radio and it does not sound good on it. It sounds better on TV, with the video, but it's not a radio song at all.
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 4, 2007 6:18:21 GMT -5
pyrates, what HOT AC chart are you looking at?
this is what I have for hot AC
13 14 KELLY CLARKSON Never Again 1802 1733 69 7.723
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TeddyR
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Post by TeddyR on Jun 4, 2007 6:27:52 GMT -5
it's at #6 on itunes, in front of Home which is currently #5 on the pop/chr chart....I guess someone REALLY needs to explain to me HOW that's possible for a song that people think is a flop. I mean NO song got more promo than Home this year...it was played for 30 million people every week and it's got a +529 bullet and 39 million in audience impressions.... so sorry if I don't believe that this song is performing "poorly" on itunes considering it's massive promotion...cuz if that's the case Home is selling like crap and should be embarassed by it's sales. I thought people have been buying the entire Daughtry CD consistently since it came out. If you pair up weekly downloads with entire CD sales, I would say HOME is doing ok and not selling like crap.
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pyrates
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Post by pyrates on Jun 4, 2007 6:30:01 GMT -5
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 4, 2007 6:35:17 GMT -5
well that's one way around the argument I guess I mean it seems that people change tactics as soon as someone comes back with a logical rebuttal to refute the assertition that this song is a total disaster. since Kelly doesn't have an entire album available yet I can't wait to see how that argument will change in a few weeks if her sales continue to remain steady on itunes for this song... pyrates, I have no clue which is the "offical" chart I just do a search for mediabase and click the link for pop then hit the charts menu and go to hot ac and those are the numbers I come up with.
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OUcultjam
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Post by OUcultjam on Jun 4, 2007 7:00:25 GMT -5
pyrates' hot ac link is the official one.
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TeddyR
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Post by TeddyR on Jun 4, 2007 7:14:10 GMT -5
well that's one way around the argument I guess I mean it seems that people change tactics as soon as someone comes back with a logical rebuttal to refute the assertition that this song is a total disaster. since Kelly doesn't have an entire album available yet I can't wait to see how that argument will change in a few weeks if her sales continue to remain steady on itunes for this song... My response had nothing to do with NA's performance. I just don't think that your remark regarding HOME held any water since you didn't seem to be looking at the entire picture. You didn't have a logical rebuttal, you were just manipulating facts to support your argument. It will be interesting to see what happens to NA's downloads as radioplay decreases over the next few weeks (if it does) leading up to the album release.
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Jeff
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Post by Jeff on Jun 4, 2007 7:23:04 GMT -5
This song is a Total Flop @ Pop Radio! On the Hot 100 this song is a bonafide hit single because it hit the Top 20. It's a hit. That's that.
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 4, 2007 7:25:04 GMT -5
thanks OU.... it gets confusing..... I like my number better though ;)
what did I manipulate? is it not a fact that Home is without question THE most promoted song on the charts right now, being exposed to 30 million on television a week for 13+ weeks, plus 39million on pop radio alone and yet it's still BEHIND NA on itunes...that's just the facts and I was responding to the person who said based on Kelly's promotion, which included appearances on Kimmel, R&K, Ellen, Letterman, Today Show (all within the first week or so of the songs release) and most recently Idol, NA wasn't selling that good. So by THAT argument, neither is Home, right?
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pyrates
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Post by pyrates on Jun 4, 2007 7:29:43 GMT -5
IMO, NA isn't really a hit on Pop radio, now if by some miracle it rebounds and regains a positive bullet, then I'll change my mind. (Although I have my fingers crossed, I'm still doubting that it'll happen.) But I don't think it was a complete and utter flop either. IMO, NA is somewhere in between right now. Personally, I figured that it would be in the -1000s by now, so I'm really happy that it's in the -300s.
I think with "Home", Chris's CD sales have to be considered. He's still selling incredibly well so people might opt to buy the entire album instead of the single. Kind of like with Kelly's album Breakaway. (Question: if you buy the entire album then the single on the album doesn't count towards the single's sales count. Right? I'm a little confused about this, b/c can't you buy a single on iTunes then later dl the rest of the album?)
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dionysus
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Post by dionysus on Jun 4, 2007 7:35:30 GMT -5
Mediabase
Kelly Clarkson , Never AgainDate / Spins To Date / Aud.(M) Jun 3 / 34,434 / 21.201 ??? May 31/ 32,545 / 21.623 May 30/ 31,951 / 21.797 May 29/ 31,335 / 21.802 May 28/ 30,774 / 21.839 May 27/ 30,136 / 21.816 May 25/ 28,752 / 22.929 May 24/ 28,189 / 23.377 May 23/ 27.556 / 23.948 May 22/ 26,895 / 24.829 May 21/ 26,194 / 25.493 May 20/ 25,486 / 26.150 May 19/ 24,678 / 26.607 May 18/ 23,941 / 27.282 May 17/ 23,230 / 27.991 May 16/ 22,462 / 28.423 May 15/ 21,697 / 28.816 May 14/ 20,900 / 28.987 May 13/ 20,108 / 29.164 May 12/ 19,254 / 28.964 May 11/ 18,424 / 28.985 May 10/ 17,659 / 29.072 May 9 / 16,842 / 28.956 May 8 / 15,998 / 28.666 May 7 / 15,011 / 27.982 May 6 / 14,432 / 28.010 May 5 / 13,726 / 27.630 May 4 / 12,928 / 27.062 May 3 / 12,195 / 26.610 May 2 / 11,428 / 26.347 May 1 / 10,645 / 25.753 Apr 30 / 9,876 / 25.284 Apr 29 / 9,167 / 30.018 Apr 28 / 8,418 / 28.743 Apr 27 / 7,643 / 27.950 Apr 26 / 7,004 / 27.365 Apr 25 / 6,312 / 26.934 Apr 24 / 5,625 / 26.325 Apr 23 / 4,991 / 25.702 Apr 22 / 4,387 / 25.455 Apr 21 / 3,908 / 24.634 It's time to promote 2nd single .
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Focus
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Post by Focus on Jun 4, 2007 7:46:54 GMT -5
Thanks dicky!
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jun 4, 2007 9:24:06 GMT -5
Why don't we hold off on calling it a flop until the song is finished completely, as if off all the significant charts? As it stands now, it looked like it flopped in relation to her past singles but iTunes sales seem to be doing good and it is starting to slow down in its dropping. I mean, if the album opens with 400k or whatever, some really good number, then I think that too can effect whether or not 'Never Again' is a flop. As I've said before and I'll always say it, I think 'Dirrty' was a big hit for Christina. The same *could* happen for Kelly. It's not looking likely but longevity could be a friend to 'Never Again' where peaking high on the charts wasn't. I think if, for example, 'Never Again' is able to last 20 weeks on the Hot 100, with a peak of #8 and decent chart run, then it could be a hit. Not a BIG hit but not really a flop either.
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Bunifa Latifah Jackson
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Post by Bunifa Latifah Jackson on Jun 4, 2007 9:39:24 GMT -5
DEAD @ people calling this a HIT
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un4gitible
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Post by un4gitible on Jun 4, 2007 9:41:23 GMT -5
Nope, I wouldn't expect it to but .... I would hardly call what Kelly got with Never Again "NO" airplay, either. Say miminal airplay (and I wouldn't even call it that) or little airplay (again, wouldn't call it that) but "NO" airplay implies none. zip. zilch. nada. the big goose egg.
Middling airplay. Or, maybe even more than that if you look at the whole picture. Michael Buble, Josh Groban and a few others manage to do just fine in sales with their only airplay coming from A/C. Maximum spinnage (spin count) on A/C is equivalent to right around #30 on the POP chart. The AI count on A/C for a #1 song is equivalent to between #25 and #20 on POP. Hot A/C is slightly better but a similar story (you are looking more at being around #15 on POP). And we all know there are artists that do just fine with a majority of their spins coming on Hot A/C (Rob Thomas is a good example).
Not trying to sugarcoat it - no this song wasn't a huge hit or anything to that effect. But I still maintain there is a lot of ground in between a huge hit (top 5) and a flop. I would definitely say this song underperformed in terms of what it had the potential to do based on past history - but a flop? Sorry, not to me it wasn't. Middling hit (finally googled cuz midland didn't sound just right haha midland works, as it's center or middle, but more refers to country-wise heh) is how I would classify it.
I do laugh at how during the Breakaway era the fact that none of her songs went to #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart was tossed out as reasoning why her songs weren't really as big a hits as they appeared to be - and that Hot 100 was THE important chart and not the individual charts. Well, now that Kelly's best showing (so far - haha) Hot 100 isn't important at all. That 8 showing means nothing when it comes to the popularity of the song. It's really quite amusing to say the least heh
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Jun 4, 2007 10:05:45 GMT -5
It was a moderate hit. It didn't flop, but it certainly wasn't a smash by any means.
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 4, 2007 10:22:22 GMT -5
Why don't we hold off on calling it a flop until the song is finished completely, as if off all the significant charts? As it stands now, it looked like it flopped in relation to her past singles but iTunes sales seem to be doing good and it is starting to slow down in its dropping. I mean, if the album opens with 400k or whatever, some really good number, then I think that too can effect whether or not 'Never Again' is a flop. As I've said before and I'll always say it, I think 'Dirrty' was a big hit for Christina. The same *could* happen for Kelly. It's not looking likely but longevity could be a friend to 'Never Again' where peaking high on the charts wasn't. I think if, for example, 'Never Again' is able to last 20 weeks on the Hot 100, with a peak of #8 and decent chart run, then it could be a hit. Not a BIG hit but not really a flop either. 110% Agreed, people were already calling it a flop when it went from +2k to +600 bullet, that's absurd. Great to see the negative bullet take a real hit, anyone wanna go -200ish now? Were getting there! Her spins are really stabalizing, I really want to see them go forward in one day by day again, if not I'll be happy with its super slow decline. Oooh hey -1000 huh people? Woah what happened?
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un4gitible
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Post by un4gitible on Jun 4, 2007 10:24:43 GMT -5
Yup, Mikey, that's what I've been saying all along haha For some, there's just no middle ground. Hit or Flop - that's it! I myself never was a black or white person - I find quite a bit of joy in the grey area of life!
I'll get in on the -200. Can I have Thursday afternoon update please? And can I get a 15 over/under? heh
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popmusicaddict
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Post by popmusicaddict on Jun 4, 2007 10:49:28 GMT -5
You stole my guess :( I guess I'll just get more precise! Lol @ the 15 over/under hehe, yes you can! -225 by Friday mornings update! 10 over/under! This is fun
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4 Minutes to be a Legend
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Post by 4 Minutes to be a Legend on Jun 4, 2007 11:17:07 GMT -5
But wait, weren't the Kelly fans the same ones that said the Hot 100 was inaccurate during her 'Breakaway' era because she wasn't able to score #1 hits but instead they kept their focus on the radio charts because she was scoring #1s all over them. But now suddenly, they've switched and it's the Hot 100 that's the more accurate one just because now her song peaked higher there.
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SILENCE
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Post by SILENCE on Jun 4, 2007 11:18:20 GMT -5
well the criteria clearly changes depending on the situation. IF this song had been a hit on radio airplay but not done as well in sales THAT would prove this song was a flop and that RCA was simply payolaing it right to #1.... like they said all her other singles were.
I agree 100%...this song isn't a monster hit by ANY stretch and I don't believe I've seen ANYONE say it is.....I've seen people say it's a hit which even a midland (is that right?) hit is STILL a hit.
I'm gonna go for broke and guess -200 by Friday's update 15 over/under....
this is much more interesting than watching a song which sails right through that's for sure LOL...
NA didn't peak "higher"
kelly chart run on BBHOT 100
2005 Because Of You The Billboard Hot 100 7 2005 Behind These Hazel Eyes The Billboard Hot 100 6 2005 Since U Been Gone The Billboard Hot 100 2 2004 Breakaway The Billboard Hot 100 6
bolded number is peak position and everyone knows that without repressed downloads OR URBAN stations supporting a single it's next to impossible to get to #1 on the Hot 100.
legendtina quote of the day
lol... talking out of both sides of your mouth eh?
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un4gitible
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She started singing "Maybe." Let me tell you: This girl can sing, yo. - Erin Bried
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Post by un4gitible on Jun 4, 2007 12:19:46 GMT -5
It's middling - I looked it up haha
I agree it IS a bit more fun to watch - especially if it manages to regain it's bullet and breaks into the top 20 on POP. heh Zipping to the top was to be expected - this, was not. Gotta love the unexpected.
I don't see anyone saying that Hot 100 is the more accurate chart - and I didn't see Kelly fans discrediting the Hot 100 in the Breakaway era
My impression is: I think most tended to think that that Hot 100 wasn't the most important, during the Breakaway era, and still don't think it is. But if you can you have a non-urban song and have it get into the top 10 on Hot 100, you've definitely accomplished something. Urban songs have the benefit of spins/AI's being counted on stations that non-urban songs have no chance on - while also being able to garner spins/ai's on the same formats that artists like Kelly do get spins on (A/C, POP and HOT A/C).
Personally, I think chartwise POP IS the most important for artists like Kelly - it's where you get the most bang for your buck. You just can't get the exposure of a top 10 or top 5 hit on POP from even a combo of A/C and HOT A/C. But if you can get a top 5 on Hot A/C AND a top 20 on POP - you have, or close to have, the equivalent of a #1 on POP.
*shrug* Only time will tell where this all ends up. I'll be happy with 300k the first week - that would be larger first week sales than her first two cd's (I believe - wasn't Thankful 297k?). Of course I'd rather she have sustained sales and that's what REALLY matters (coming out strong and ending up under 1M can hardly be called a successful cd IMO) but baby steps to start haha Biggest selling first week for her along with over 2M in sales ... now that would be a huge, huge success in my book.
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4 Minutes to be a Legend
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Post by 4 Minutes to be a Legend on Jun 4, 2007 12:47:05 GMT -5
well the criteria clearly changes depending on the situation. IF this song had been a hit on radio airplay but not done as well in sales THAT would prove this song was a flop and that RCA was simply payolaing it right to #1.... like they said all her other singles were. I agree 100%...this song isn't a monster hit by ANY stretch and I don't believe I've seen ANYONE say it is.....I've seen people say it's a hit which even a midland (is that right?) hit is STILL a hit. I'm gonna go for broke and guess -200 by Friday's update 15 over/under.... this is much more interesting than watching a song which sails right through that's for sure LOL... NA didn't peak "higher" kelly chart run on BBHOT 100 2005 Because Of You The Billboard Hot 100 7 2005 Behind These Hazel Eyes The Billboard Hot 100 6 2005 Since U Been Gone The Billboard Hot 100 2 2004 Breakaway The Billboard Hot 100 6bolded number is peak position and everyone knows that without repressed downloads OR URBAN stations supporting a single it's next to impossible to get to #1 on the Hot 100. legendtina quote of the day lol... talking out of both sides of your mouth eh? I didn't mean it peaked higher on the Hot 100 than her other singles. I meant now that her singles are peaking higher on the Hot 100 rather than radio, her fans now only look at that chart, where as from before they didn't
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