atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 15:13:50 GMT -5
Wait, so I've read this soooo many times but can someone try to please explain this in as simple of a way as possible? :) It would be greatly appreciated I'm pretty sure that it's a bunch of stations that are all airing the same playlists overnight, so any songs that aren't on this centrilized overnight playlist are getting screwed, losing a huge amount of spins and bullet because they're not getting spun overnights on several stations anymore. That's why songs like Please Don't Leave Me, Second Chance, The Climb & Waking Up in Vegas have all plummeted the past few days. Seriously does Clear Channel have an interest in makin the CHR chart Rhythmic (just wonderin...) cause this is the second time they singlehandedly affected the chart this way (the first was when they launched all those Kiss stations in the early 00s)
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 15:16:39 GMT -5
I don't know if this is applied by CHR stations, but usually there are some stations that use evenings/overnights to throw in new music and then eventually have it air across all dayparts. With this Clear Channel approach, a lot of the new songs as well as Hot AC crossovers are getting screwed at the expense of those songs that are already high on the charts, as well as those about to go and have already gone recurrent.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 15:27:44 GMT -5
Okay, I think this is the list: KRQQ-FM: Tuscon, Arizona KZCH-FM: Wichita, Kansas KZHT-FM: Salt Lake City, Utah WAKZ-FM: Youngstown, Ohio WDKF-FM: Dayton, Ohio WFKS-FM: Jacksonville, Florida WFMF-FM: Baton Rouge, Louisiana WKFS-FM: Cincinnati, Ohio WKGS-FM: Rochester, New York WKKF-FM: Albany, New York WKSC-FM: Chicago, Illinois WLDI-FM: West Palm Beach, Florida WLKT-FM: Lexington, Kentucky WNOK-FM: Columbia, South Carolina WRVQ-FM: Richmond, Virginia WRVW-FM: Nashville, Tennessee WSNX-FM: Grand Rapids, Michigan WVKS-FM: Toledo, Ohio WXKS-FM: Boston, Massachusetts WZKF-FM: Louisville, Kentucky Wow a whole bunch of those stations don't lean rhythmic at all like WNOK, WRVQ, and WRVW...if CC is plannin on havin its CHRs have rhythmic playlists overnight (with the Fray added in), huge prob. IMO for CHR chart
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 15:30:05 GMT -5
Some of the songs in the top 40 not on the playlist getting affected:
Shinedown - Second Chance Miley Cyrus - The Climb Pink - Please Don't Leave Me Katy Perry - Waking Up in Vegas Eminem - We Made You The Ting Tings - That's Not My Name Kevin Rudolf - Welcome to the World Plain White T's - 1, 2, 3, 4 Ciara - Love, Sex, Magic (explains why it's fall has been so huge) The Offspring - Kristy, Are You Doing Okay? Kanye West - Paranoid
There's more I'm sure...these are just a few, and I just did this quickly by looking at WXKS's overnight playlist. Anything that doesn't have a lot of stations though probably isn't really getting effected (like LoveGame & Fire Burning)
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on May 5, 2009 16:55:04 GMT -5
Love Game and Fire Burning are probably picking up a lot of daytime airplay which is why their numbers are continuing to improve; most likely the same for IDNHU and Goodbye. It's mainly stuff lower down the chart that's really suffering because I'd guess most of their introductory airplay would occur at night, and with syndicated playlists blocking them out of rotation, they just can't get that extra push to get them to go anywhere.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 17:03:46 GMT -5
IDNHU and Goodbye are both on the syndicated playlist, though, so they haven't really been affected by this at all.
It seems like songs in the 20s are getting hit the hardest (Waking Up in Vegas, Please Don't Leave Me, We Made You, That's Not My Name, and Welcome to the World are all in the 20s) - I guess because there's enough stations playing them to really make an impact, but with a few exceptions (basically the only one being Goodbye) this syndicated playlist is only playing songs in the top 20.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 17:08:21 GMT -5
I finished most of the list on the first page. Most stations are just running the national playlist for 6 hours or less, which still screws with the charts, but I guess isn't that bad.
There are 5 stations that are running the national playlist 16 hours a day: WKGS, WZKF, WDKF, WKKF, and WLKT. I think all but one of these stations should be booted off of the panel immediately. Mediabase, in general, would not let multiple satellite stations running the exact same thing on the panel, so this situation should be no different.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 17:09:49 GMT -5
Yeah 16 hours a day is ridiculous. They really need to fix that.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 17:31:49 GMT -5
16 hours a day?! What the heck?
Judging from the stations listed, it's mainly small markets, but still. That's like 2/3 of the daily radio schedule right there. Are there even any DJs still working at those stations, at least during the times they're not simulcasting the same playlist? Or have they been removed in favor of syndicated programming like Seacrest? His show has now expanded to 4 hours! ???
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 17:36:37 GMT -5
I think the 16 hours-a-day stations mostly run this schedule:
6-10: Elvis Duran 10-2: Ryan Seacrest (with music programmed locally) 2PM-6AM: "Premium Choice" i.e. CC's national voicetracked jocks and music
So, no, there would be no local DJs at all on those stations.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 17:41:08 GMT -5
That's pretty terrible. They should really just remove those stations from the panel, at least all but one of them. Who would even want to listen to that?
I just hope that Clear Channel doesn't plan to extend this to *all* of it's stations...but I don't think they will. Like it's been said, the ones playing it 16 hours a day are small-market, low-rated CHRs, so maybe it's just a money-saving thing. I can't imagine like, z100 or KIIS doing something like that.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 18:26:13 GMT -5
I think the 16 hours-a-day stations mostly run this schedule: 6-10: Elvis Duran 10-2: Ryan Seacrest (with music programmed locally) 2PM-6AM: "Premium Choice" i.e. CC's national voicetracked jocks and music So, no, there would be no local DJs at all on those stations. Nice job putting together that list. Just to avoid confusion, it would be worth mentioning that all the times listed on the post from the previous page are local - so the same song that was played at 2AM local time in Miami was played at 2 AM local time in Tucson, for instance.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 18:29:45 GMT -5
Will do, thanks for the suggestion!
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 19:08:09 GMT -5
One thing I noticed looking at the list- at first I thought only one station in any given area will have the national playlist. For instance, WHKF and WLAN have overlapping coverage areas, so only WHKF runs the national playlist. Same for WIOQ and WHTZ, WRVQ and WIHT.
But then I realized this wasn't always the case: WKSS and WKCI both run it. So do WHYI and WLDI. And WAKS and WAKZ. That really sucks if both of your CHR stations are running the exact same playlist. Cuts down on choices for the listener and will probably drive people (well, late-night people, at least) to their iPods.
CHR isn't the only format Clear Channel is doing this in either. Both of the CC Alternative stations that I can get (WWDC and WCHH) are running the same playlist after midnight. This probably won't affect the Alt. charts too much though, since most CC Alt. stations are gold-heavy and play few currents. Plus there are a LOT more CC CHR stations than there are CC Alt. stations.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 19:53:43 GMT -5
How about Hot AC? Are any stations in that format taking this approach as well?
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 20:02:44 GMT -5
I finished most of the list on the first page. Most stations are just running the national playlist for 6 hours or less, which still screws with the charts, but I guess isn't that bad. There are 5 stations that are running the national playlist 16 hours a day: WKGS, WZKF, WDKF, WKKF, and WLKT. I think all but one of these stations should be booted off of the panel immediately. Mediabase, in general, would not let multiple satellite stations running the exact same thing on the panel, so this situation should be no different. Yeah thinkin about it why should the fact that they broadcast from different cities let their playlist count 5 times...(just wonderin) - might as well add Radio Disney to the CHR chart and count each separate affiliate as a separate reporter Still seems like listeners of stations like WRVQ, WRVW, and WNOK would start complainin cause their overnight playlist is so different from what they're used to (also WRVW and WNOK are top-rated stations so can't believe they're messin with their programming)...CC could at least simulcast one overnight option for their teen-rhythmic stations and another one for their mainstream stations - at least that wouldn't mess with the chart as much IMO
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 20:09:13 GMT -5
I'm not seeing it in Hot AC yet. Maybe Hot ACs vary too much for them to do a national playlist. Some Hot ACs are really 80's and 90's heavy while others are very current. It would be tough to satisfy all the stations.
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on May 5, 2009 20:10:23 GMT -5
This is terrible. I hope it doesn't last long.
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rfucom
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Post by rfucom on May 5, 2009 20:11:19 GMT -5
Im angry with the stations doing this. its like manipulating the chart even they dont. DJ's laziness?
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 20:13:58 GMT -5
I'm not seeing it in Hot AC yet. Maybe Hot ACs vary too much for them to do a national playlist. Some Hot ACs are really 80's and 90's heavy while others are very current. It would be tough to satisfy all the stations. Yeah also think most of their Hot ACs are doin really well (esp. since their listeners tend to have more $$$ for advertising purposes)...their teen-oriented small-market CHRs really aren't doin so well on average, and since teen stations don't attract expensive advertising, assumin this was their first priority Just looked back at Slinky's updated list, and seems like most mainstream or adult-leaning stations aren't usin the simulcast...a whole bunch are though (like KXXM San Antonio, which leans Alternative, WAEV/Savannah, WRVQ/Richmond, WFMF/Baton Rouge, KHFI/Austin, WKCI/New Haven, and WNOK/Columbia which are all mainstream CHRs) - confused cause some of their ratings are really high...not sure why their listeners would want rhythmic-leaning stuff all night - also have no clue why huge market station at the top of its market like WXKS/Boston would mess with 8 hours of their playlist unless they were convinced they should be headin in the rhythmic direction
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 20:32:33 GMT -5
Still seems like listeners of stations like WRVQ, WRVW, and WNOK would start complainin cause their overnight playlist is so different from what they're used to (also WRVW and WNOK are top-rated stations so can't believe they're messin with their programming)...CC could at least simulcast one overnight option for their teen-rhythmic stations and another one for their mainstream stations - at least that wouldn't mess with the chart as much IMO WRVW isn't participating. I think the long-time top-rated CHRs that target adults got a pass on this one. WNCI is also not running the national playlist. I'm not really that familiar with WNOK. WRVQ is a strange case because they're subbing in a lot of songs. For instance, they subbed in Roxette (!), Matt Nathanson, Eminem ("We Made You"), Miley, and Jimmy Eat World ("The Middle") for Pink, Fergie, Kristina Debarge, Pussycat Dolls in the 12AM hour last night. I should probably put an asterisk or something next to them in the master list. With how many substitutions they're making, I'm surprised they're running the national playlist at all. I guess it might have been mandated by Clear Channel headquarters. I hope that in the future, more stations start subbing into the national programming like WRVQ does. That would fix the chart problems we're having right now, where everything slows down because the national playlist is so stale.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 20:39:57 GMT -5
WRVQ is a strange case because they're subbing in a lot of songs. For instance, they subbed in Roxette (!), Matt Nathanson, Eminem ("We Made You"), Miley, and Jimmy Eat World ("The Middle") for Pink, Fergie, Kristina Debarge, Pussycat Dolls in the 12AM hour last night I should probably put an asterisk or something next to them in the master list. With how many substitutions they're making, I'm surprised they're running the national playlist at all. I guess it might have been mandated by Clear Channel headquarters. Nice (esp. cause WRVQ has been one of the most liberal CHRs in the country, constantly backing underdog hits from all genres) - IMO it's only a matter of time before stations like WNOK, WKCI, KHFI, WXXM, WAEV, etc. follow a similar pattern, cause these stations just aren't pop/rhythmic, and their listeners really wanna hear Shinedown, Katy Perry, and Matt Nathanson at night just like they do durin the day
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Post by The Music Man on May 5, 2009 20:43:22 GMT -5
I'm positive that this was not optional for the stations involved, and I am also positive that it's an absolute trainwreck. WAEV is my hometown station (I actually worked there on and off for the past two years or so), and has Matt Nathanson and Shinedown in all-day power rotation. Yet between 12-6am last night, the two got a combined zero plays. Instead, songs that are either gone from the playlist or haven't gotten there yet - Kid Cudi (x2), PCD/I Hate This Part (x3), Cassie/Me & U, Pitbull, Kristinia DeBarge (x2), Madcon, Kanye/Flashing Lights, PCD/When I Grow Up. I don't know who's programming this music, but someone needs to remind them that the almost entirely Rhythmic playlist that works in LA won't fly in Savannah, Columbia, and other Southern markets. Slinky, WNOK is pretty much mainstream but slightly adult-leaning, like WNCI, WDCG and WAEV. And by the way, the jock who's airing is KIIS' Sisanie. She's a talented personality, but the entire package is so, so very ridiculous. It probably doesn't help that a number of these stations no longer have full-time PDs to manage this show (the programmers of WAEV, WLKT, WZKF, WFMF, WNOK, WFKS, and others exited last week in the second round of CC cuts. I imagine the OMs are technically programming now, but they must be so preoccupied that they can't deal with nitty-gritty details like this, and some of them probably don't even know CHR that well). As you can probably tell, I'm utterly appalled. I'm as big of radio guy as you'll get, but I couldn't be more disheartened and scared for the industry's future right now.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 20:47:13 GMT -5
I just read something on VARTV.com about WRVQ listeners complaining about the "piped-in" music over the weekend. It may be that WRVQ got a lot of angry emails/calls about the more rhythmic music, and so the PD or MD started subbing in the less rhythmic tracks to try and satisfy those listeners.
If true, then good for Q94. It's rare that you hear of a station directly responding to the listeners like that.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 21:11:57 GMT -5
I just read something on VARTV.com about WRVQ listeners complaining about the "piped-in" music over the weekend. It may be that WRVQ got a lot of angry emails/calls about the more rhythmic music, and so the PD or MD started subbing in the less rhythmic tracks to try and satisfy those listeners. If true, then good for Q94. It's rare that you hear of a station directly responding to the listeners like that. Yeah just wonderin...don't you guys think most listeners to these mainstream and slightly adult-leaning stations will complain? Doesn't make sense IMO that they would magically wanna hear rhythmic music overnight...in any market Wonderin if Clear Channel thought it was "safer" to pump teen/rhythmic music to its mainstream stations than it was to pump mainstream CHR to its teen/rhythmic stations - just seems like someone really missed the boat on this one...
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 21:15:37 GMT -5
I'm positive that this was not optional for the stations involved, and I am also positive that it's an absolute trainwreck. This is something I've been wondering about, and it doesn't really make sense. Not that I'm doubting you. Rather, I'm doubting Clear Channel for making such an odd move. Doing the national programming thing 24/7/365 on stations like WKKF and WZKF makes some sense because it at least saves money, but what does the national overnight show achieve? All of these stations were automated in overnights. They weren't paying any DJ's before, so it's not like bringing in a national DJ saves Clear Channel money. Is it a ploy to get more listeners? Do they think a DJ after midnight is going to draw more people into the station? I don't see how that would happen since there are so few listeners after midnight anyway. So what in the world would the motive be for Clear Channel to order its stations to pick up the national show? Even assuming that Clear Channel didn't order it, and all of the local stations CHOSE to pick up the show, why would they do it? What's the benefit? And then I read what you wrote next... ... and it hit me. Is the national programming just a way to lessen the load on each OM/PD/MD? If you're scheduling music for 3 stations, and now you don't have to schedule for 2 of them between 12 and 6, does that free up a bit of your time to do other things? That's the only rationale I can see for this programming move. But even that seems weak. Music scheduling doesn't take that long (Does it? Anyone with experience want to chime in?) and does reducing scheduling by 6 hours matter much when you still have to schedule the other 18?
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johnm1120
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Post by johnm1120 on May 5, 2009 21:19:17 GMT -5
As someone who follows the charts and music, I'm beyond upset over this. We need to get together and storm the Empire or something. Any thoughts?
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 21:20:29 GMT -5
The only other thought I have, is that the overnight show is a test. If CC feels that it works, then the night show will be national, then the afternoon show, until most of their CHRs are exactly like WKKF and WZKF.
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on May 5, 2009 21:23:22 GMT -5
I just read something on VARTV.com about WRVQ listeners complaining about the "piped-in" music over the weekend. It may be that WRVQ got a lot of angry emails/calls about the more rhythmic music, and so the PD or MD started subbing in the less rhythmic tracks to try and satisfy those listeners. If true, then good for Q94. It's rare that you hear of a station directly responding to the listeners like that. My local chr! Actually, they seem to have been going through a lot of stuff lately. Their morning show just switched to Elvis Duran and they've kayed off a lot of DJ's in favor of syndicated programming.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 5, 2009 21:28:33 GMT -5
The only other thought I have, is that the overnight show is a test. If CC feels that it works, then the night show will be national, then the afternoon show, until most of their CHRs are exactly like WKKF and WZKF. WKKF has an Arbitron rating of 1.7, probably the lowest rated CHR in the country!!! What r they thinking? (Tried to look up WZKF but couldn't find it) Anyhow, no way this is gonna work...Southern CHRs mostly don't have Hot ACs and target both adults and teens - leaving Nickelback, Daughtry, Shinedown, Matt Nathanson, etc. off their playlists for extended periods of time is gonna do nothin but backfire on the station (and if they keep it up, IMO create competing CHRs)
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