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Post by The Music Man on May 5, 2009 21:37:37 GMT -5
... and it hit me. Is the national programming just a way to lessen the load on each OM/PD/MD? If you're scheduling music for 3 stations, and now you don't have to schedule for 2 of them between 12 and 6, does that free up a bit of your time to do other things? That's the only rationale I can see for this programming move. But even that seems weak. Music scheduling doesn't take that long (Does it? Anyone with experience want to chime in?) and does reducing scheduling by 6 hours matter much when you still have to schedule the other 18? You might be right, but any programmer worth their salt would not forfeit their traditional clocks and music selections to save 6 hours worth of music scheduling (which shouldn't take that long, for the record). Although only some of these stations still have devoted PD/MDs, I find it hard to believe Chris Tyler in Boston just said "screw it, we'll let corporate choose our overnight music." Although many of these stations were purely automated, I think it's more important that one has consistent music, even jockless, than a compelling personality with music that doesn't match the market or the other dayparts. This is a major disaster in my opinion. Aside from the musical ramifications, which are horrific in themselves, where are new jocks going to train? They're not, since overnights are canned from LA. The radio industry is truly in dire straits.
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 5, 2009 21:41:58 GMT -5
That's true- good point about the devoted PD/MDs that major market stations still have.
Then I guess the best hypothesis is that the national overnights are being crammed down the local stations' throats as an experiment. In other words, CC wants to see the reaction and then expand it to other dayparts like they've done with WZKF and WKKF.
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bigbluenote
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Post by bigbluenote on May 5, 2009 21:52:16 GMT -5
This is extremely sad for anyone out there aspiring to be a DJ. Before long, DJ's won't even exist.
How sad.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 22:06:07 GMT -5
While I'm glad to see that this is not happening on Hot AC, it is sad to see this happening on CHR in the U.S. Like many posters on this board, I hope this is not a permanent thing but this is eventually what happens in the course of consolidation. By having one company (Clear Channel) take over an industry like radio, it ultimately makes them dictate how the stations under their ownership can operate in order to make enough money.
And with the current situation of the economy, it's certainly not helping things. That's at least part of the reason why Clear Channel has resorted to this approach that is certainly not going well with listeners, in order to cut costs.
On a positive note, I'm glad to see that some stations are taking action against this and keeping in mind the opinions of their listeners.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 22:12:52 GMT -5
I'm positive that this was not optional for the stations involved, and I am also positive that it's an absolute trainwreck. WAEV is my hometown station (I actually worked there on and off for the past two years or so), and has Matt Nathanson and Shinedown in all-day power rotation. Yet between 12-6am last night, the two got a combined zero plays. Instead, songs that are either gone from the playlist or haven't gotten there yet - Kid Cudi (x2), PCD/I Hate This Part (x3), Cassie/Me & U, Pitbull, Kristinia DeBarge (x2), Madcon, Kanye/Flashing Lights, PCD/When I Grow Up. I don't know who's programming this music, but someone needs to remind them that the almost entirely Rhythmic playlist that works in LA won't fly in Savannah, Columbia, and other Southern markets. Slinky, WNOK is pretty much mainstream but slightly adult-leaning, like WNCI, WDCG and WAEV. And by the way, the jock who's airing is KIIS' Sisanie. She's a talented personality, but the entire package is so, so very ridiculous. It probably doesn't help that a number of these stations no longer have full-time PDs to manage this show (the programmers of WAEV, WLKT, WZKF, WFMF, WNOK, WFKS, and others exited last week in the second round of CC cuts. I imagine the OMs are technically programming now, but they must be so preoccupied that they can't deal with nitty-gritty details like this, and some of them probably don't even know CHR that well). As you can probably tell, I'm utterly appalled. I'm as big of radio guy as you'll get, but I couldn't be more disheartened and scared for the industry's future right now. Exactly. The reason that there's no centrilized playlist in the first place, widely different demographics. I see this idea failing horribly.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 5, 2009 22:33:24 GMT -5
This is the point where I'm grateful that my CHR is independent--even though I can't stand their playlist at the moment (good and bad times).
Personally, I would rather have a PD for each station and an automated, but localized playlist than DJs. I know that doesn't sound great, but when the ship is sinking I value the person choosing the music over the talking head.
Radio sucks right now. It's going through a terrible time. There has to be a better business model than this--one where quality in programming is rewarded. Right now, it's not. Satellite is probably it, but not enough people are willing to pay for what they believe they get for free, even if paying for it means more choices and better playlists.
I can totally see a future where, in 50 years, we don't have free music radio anymore (just free talk radio, as required by the FCC). One company shouldn't own so much of radio because if that one company dies, it takes down pretty much everybody.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 22:33:54 GMT -5
The only other thought I have, is that the overnight show is a test. If CC feels that it works, then the night show will be national, then the afternoon show, until most of their CHRs are exactly like WKKF and WZKF. Man, that is a scary thought. If that's the direction they're headed, CHR is screwed big time. Eventually, there should be at least someone at Clear Channel who follows the charts to keep the national playlists as current and consistent as possible, so songs that lost their momentum or plummetted drastically so far this week (i.e. Please Don't Leave Me, Waking Up in Vegas, Second Chance) can rebound. And again, the overnight hours are usually a window for stations to showcase new music.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 22:35:34 GMT -5
...Guess we're all headed to HAC!
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 5, 2009 22:38:19 GMT -5
...Guess we're all headed to HAC! But I don't have a HAC... And, for the record, even the independent CHR here is leaning more rhythmic lately. Granted, they still add songs that stations like KIIS wouldn't touch, but they've added some head-scratchers in the past couple months that they wouldn't have ever added before. Independent stations follow Clear Channel because Clear Channel controls a lot of the chart. CC goes nuts, CHR goes nuts.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 5, 2009 22:42:12 GMT -5
I think this is too messy to lead to anything drastic. It just doesn't work. I think it'll be killed before anything really terrible happens.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 5, 2009 22:42:26 GMT -5
So when exactly did this national playlist experiment start taking effect? Friday/Saturday overnight? Saturday/Sunday overnight?
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Post by The Music Man on May 5, 2009 23:04:13 GMT -5
OOPS! Yet another problem with this programming stupidity. At 11:45 PM, during local programming hours, WAEV spun "Poker Face." Then, leading off the canned playlist as I listen right now at midnight? You guessed it, "Poker Face." Just brilliant. This is the kind of sloppy bulls**t that will drive listeners away.
EDIT: Sisanie's not on! It's JoJo, also from KIIS. Maybe the shift is divided and I just caught Sisanie's portion last night, or maybe they're alternating while this setup gets underway. Who the hell cares. Now they're playing "Love Lockdown," another song that's been gone from WAEV for months.
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rfucom
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Post by rfucom on May 5, 2009 23:07:21 GMT -5
OOPS! Yet another problem with this programming stupidity. At 11:45 PM, during local programming hours, WAEV spun "Poker Face." Then, leading off the canned playlist as I listen right now at midnight? You guessed it, "Poker Face." Just brilliant. This is the kind of sloppy bulls**t that will drive listeners away. EDIT: Sisanie's not on! It's JoJo, also from KIIS. Maybe the shift is divided and I just caught Sisanie's portion last night. Who the hell cares. Now they're playing "Love Lockdown," another song that's been gone from WAEV for months. fuck stations.
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aTunes
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Post by aTunes on May 5, 2009 23:17:19 GMT -5
I think this is too messy to lead to anything drastic. It just doesn't work. I think it'll be killed before anything really terrible happens. I agree. From everything I've read, I just can't see this type of thing working. Goodbye CHR as we know it if it does. :'(
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Slinky
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Post by Slinky on May 6, 2009 1:05:37 GMT -5
So when exactly did this national playlist experiment start taking effect? Friday/Saturday overnight? Saturday/Sunday overnight? Well, using everyone's favorite CHRs WZKF, WLKT, and WKKF, it looks like it started Saturday 8AM. For the stations doing overnights only, it probably started Saturday night/Sunday morning. More bad news: It looks like some of the stations that are only doing national playlists overnights on weekdays do it all day on the weekend. WRVQ is one of those. Good news: The stations that have mixshows on weekend nights, like WIOQ, still have them. They didn't dump them for the national programming.
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David
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Post by David on May 6, 2009 1:08:32 GMT -5
I'm hoping that since this is their first week that their playlist will change after next week or that stations will spin less of the overnight stuff during the day and more of the other stuff.
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rob17
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Post by rob17 on May 6, 2009 11:26:58 GMT -5
It's so F*cked up when the US charts use radio airplay for the charts.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 6, 2009 11:51:16 GMT -5
Here's my whole take on the issue. This was something that I was going to post in the thread for Shinedown's "Second Chance" since the last few posts have been less about the song's updates and more about how that song's chart performance is getting screwed by Clear Channel.
Like many others have suggested, this idea is going to fail horribly. If Clear Channel is too delusional to see that and think that it's going to work, they might as well or eventually will suffer whatever comes at them at the expense of alienating their listeners (even if it means losing more than what they already have). That being said, it's the first week that this is bring tried out, and already, it's obvious that many do not favor this.
The rest of this post more or less re-iterates what myself and others have already brought up in previous ones:
Ideally and optimistically, someone at Clear Channel should at least not only be paying attention to the charts, hence keeping the playlists current and consistent. Therefore, some old CHR songs (those coming to the end of their run, on the verge of recurrency or already recurrent) should slowly phase out, get less spins or disappear altogether in favor of new adds and some crossover songs that have already or will eventually make an impact on the charts - particularly the ones getting hurt by this so far this week (Second Chance, Please Don't Leave Me, Waking Up in Vegas, etc.)
Another thing someone at CC should also look at are the markets taking part in this "initiative". Like many have said, not all markets are the same. Particularly, some markets have CHRs that will lean adult because they have no Hot AC. Subsequently, not all stations cater to the same demographic, so airing a centralized playlist that seems to favor one particular demo over those that the station already serves is going to make things worse. That being said, more stations should be given leniency when it comes to playing songs that will be suitable to their audience (i.e. WRVQ will insert some of the songs from their playlist in place of the rhythmic ones, much like how stations will choose their own optional extras in place of the ones assigned during the AT40).
It's no problem having an automated playlist (particularly for stations who can't afford DJs given the tough economic times), just as long as there's at least someone (like a program or music director) who can review it and can make whatever changes are necessary to be tailored to its audience. And most importantly, the playlist should at least reflect the playlists of the stations involved here (much like how the AT40 is based on the playlists of the stations that carry the show as opposed to adding in more rhythmic content).
Granted, most stations do this overnights so that only means a few hours. But for the stations that do this for more than half the day (16 hours), I think they should be allowed to have a little more freedom with their selections rather than resorting to the same playlist that few others are running at the same time.
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MOWE
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Post by MOWE on May 6, 2009 12:32:30 GMT -5
I sent the following email to Kiss 108's management team. It's incredibly likely that nothing will come of it, but I just felt like I had to try. This is such a bad policy and it could be the end of radio.
To Whom It May Concern:
I read that you have recently nationalized your overnight programming in an effort to cut costs. As a long-time Kiss 108 listener, I feel compelled to inform you that this is a terrible decision. Your listeners do not tune in to your station simply to hear these songs; we enjoy your station's unique sound, your DJ's interesting personalities, and other features that make Kiss 108 special. By nationalizing your programming, you are taking away everything that sets the station apart from its competitors. Even though you've just started this policy, I already feel like the station's quality overall is being harmed. I no longer immediately switch the station over to Kiss 108 when I'm in my car or when I get home from work. I can get the same songs (plus some variety) from my iPod or other stations. I think a lot of your listeners feel the same way and this WILL be reflected in your station's ratings.
In conclusion, I would urge you not to nationalize your daytime programming and I would encourage you to reverse this policy with regard to your overnight programming. I really used to enjoy listening to Kiss 108, particularly in the evening/nighttime and would be sorry to see the station suffer as a result of this terrible policy.
Sincerely,
A Concerned Listener*
*name changed to remain anonymous.
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MOWE
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Post by MOWE on May 6, 2009 12:40:51 GMT -5
I'm positive that this was not optional for the stations involved, and I am also positive that it's an absolute trainwreck. As you can probably tell, I'm utterly appalled. I'm as big of radio guy as you'll get, but I couldn't be more disheartened and scared for the industry's future right now. I couldn't agree more. If this doesn't drive people to listen to satellite radio or listen to their iPods instead, I don't know what will. :'( The thing is, I *kinda* see why the station's are doing this. They are losing money because of the economy right now, and by airing the national playlist they are saving a lot of money. The problem is, they are sacrificing quality and uniqueness which will only hurt them in the long run. If this continues, it could be game over for the radio industry.
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MOWE
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Post by MOWE on May 6, 2009 12:50:00 GMT -5
OOPS! Yet another problem with this programming stupidity. At 11:45 PM, during local programming hours, WAEV spun "Poker Face." Then, leading off the canned playlist as I listen right now at midnight? You guessed it, "Poker Face." Just brilliant. This is the kind of sloppy bulls**t that will drive listeners away. HAHAHAHA... smooth move.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on May 6, 2009 12:52:56 GMT -5
I'm positive that this was not optional for the stations involved, and I am also positive that it's an absolute trainwreck. As you can probably tell, I'm utterly appalled. I'm as big of radio guy as you'll get, but I couldn't be more disheartened and scared for the industry's future right now. I couldn't agree more. If this doesn't drive people to listen to satellite radio or listen to their iPods instead, I don't know what will. :'( The thing is, I *kinda* see why the station's are doing this. They are losing money because of the economy right now, and by airing the national playlist they are saving a lot of money. The problem is, they are sacrificing quality and uniqueness which will only hurt them in the long run. If this continues, it could be game over for the radio industry. Definitely. This will (in the long run) hurt them more than it saves them.
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Battle601
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Post by Battle601 on May 6, 2009 13:48:29 GMT -5
The only way they can be saved is if the economy recovers - hopefully that would be very soon. Only we don't know when that will be. The longer it takes, the more damage it will become for the radio industry altogether.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 6, 2009 14:27:55 GMT -5
I sent the following email to Kiss 108's management team. It's incredibly likely that nothing will come of it, but I just felt like I had to try. This is such a bad policy and it could be the end of radio. To Whom It May Concern: I read that you have recently nationalized your overnight programming in an effort to cut costs. As a long-time Kiss 108 listener, I feel compelled to inform you that this is a terrible decision. Your listeners do not tune in to your station simply to hear these songs; we enjoy your station's unique sound, your DJ's interesting personalities, and other features that make Kiss 108 special. By nationalizing your programming, you are taking away everything that sets the station apart from its competitors. Even though you've just started this policy, I already feel like the station's quality overall is being harmed. I no longer immediately switch the station over to Kiss 108 when I'm in my car or when I get home from work. I can get the same songs (plus some variety) from my iPod or other stations. I think a lot of your listeners feel the same way and this WILL be reflected in your station's ratings. In conclusion, I would urge you not to nationalize your daytime programming and I would encourage you to reverse this policy with regard to your overnight programming. I really used to enjoy listening to Kiss 108, particularly in the evening/nighttime and would be sorry to see the station suffer as a result of this terrible policy. Sincerely, A Concerned Listener* *name changed to remain anonymous. That's good...if your station is doing this, you should definitely send them an e-mail against it. If stations know their listeners aren't going for this national playlist thing they might try and get rid of it or at the very least, do what Q94 did and tweak it a little bit.
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David
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Post by David on May 6, 2009 14:40:11 GMT -5
So do these stations know whats going to be on these playlists? I hope they do. Because they are gonna need to change up their daily playlists so their not totally affected by this.
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Physical
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Post by Physical on May 6, 2009 15:28:28 GMT -5
Wow, this is terrible news. I really hope it doesn't last. It could be the downfall of the industry. Does anyone know if this is permanent or if it will end anytime soon?
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 6, 2009 18:38:11 GMT -5
Like many have said, not all markets are the same. Particularly, some markets have CHRs that will lean adult because they have no Hot AC. Yeah I can't imagine how this is gonna work in markets with no Hot ACs...Columbia SC for example is gonna be left with nothin but a rhythmic CHR (and urban stations) for current music - only two outcomes I can think of are either so many people are gonna call and complain that CC's gonna hafta give in, or a slew of new Hot ACs (that sound like CHRs) are gonna start poppin up in every market that CC is leavin completely rhythmic -
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on May 6, 2009 18:43:41 GMT -5
I'm positive that this was not optional for the stations involved, and I am also positive that it's an absolute trainwreck. As you can probably tell, I'm utterly appalled. I'm as big of radio guy as you'll get, but I couldn't be more disheartened and scared for the industry's future right now. I couldn't agree more. If this doesn't drive people to listen to satellite radio or listen to their iPods instead, I don't know what will. :'( The thing is, I *kinda* see why the station's are doing this. They are losing money because of the economy right now, and by airing the national playlist they are saving a lot of money. The problem is, they are sacrificing quality and uniqueness which will only hurt them in the long run. If this continues, it could be game over for the radio industry. Yeah not only that, they're messin with stations that are at the top of their markets, by providing them with playlists from stations which are mostly at the mid-bottom of their markets Wonderin why they don't make two versions of their programmin...one for teen/rhythmic stations and one for mainstream stations, cause injecting nothin but teen/rhythmic music into mainstream CHRs is gonna kill the stations by cutting their audience in half...the reason stations like WNOK are at the top of their markets is cause everyone who likes new music listens to them - now only people who like rhythmic are gonna listen, and no clue what the rest are gonna do (unless a new CHR or HAC pops up in response)
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0202
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Post by 0202 on May 6, 2009 19:27:10 GMT -5
Womanizer is increasing again because of this, already up +160 this week..
BRITNEY SPEARS Womanizer 1617 1457 160 10.141
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on May 6, 2009 19:54:16 GMT -5
Womanizer is increasing again because of this, already up +160 this week.. BRITNEY SPEARS Womanizer 1617 1457 160 10.141 This is BEYOND stupid! This needs to stop. I think we should all write e-mails to our local chr's like above. It might not change anything, but I feel like as people interested in radio charts we have an obligation to try. This is really screwing with the integrity of the chart IMO.
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