Billboard Hot 100: 12/16/2023

[clsvltn]

Anyone who wanted to play the song would still have been playing it regardless of a placement on a playlist. the song is iconic with Christmas, just like Monster Mash or Thriller is for Halloween.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates « 2023 » / « 12 » / « 04 »

1(=) Taylor Swift - Cruel Summer 72.29(+0.14)
2(=) Doja Cat - Paint The Town Red 71.56(-0.57)
3(=) Miley Cyrus - Used To Be Young 61.75(+0.34)
4(=) SZA - Snooze 61.18(+0.28)
5(=) Tate McRae - greedy 55.21(+0.73) +
6(=) Rema & Selena Gomez - Calm Down 54.06(+0.02)
7(=) Jelly Roll - Need A Favor 54.00(+0.11)
8(=) Tyla - Water 53.39(+0.84)
9(=) Paul Russell - Lil Boo Thang 52.46(+0.19) +
10(=) Jelly Roll - Save Me (with Lainey Wilson) 50.57(-0.15)

21(+1) Jack Harlow - Lovin On Me 36.00(+1.55)

23(=) George Birge - Mind On You 34.71(+1.02)

26(+1) Luke Bryan - But I Got A Beer In My Hand 32.15(+1.15)

41(+1) Mitchell Tenpenny - We Got History 23.04(+0.73)

74(+2) blink-182 - ONE MORE TIME 14.21(+0.98) +

-(-) Drake - You Broke My Heart 3.65(+0.72)

-(-) Ozuna & David Guetta - Vocation 2.17(+1.68) +

[nak]

Now let's push Jingle Bell Rock for #1 LOL

[jdanton2]

Dec 4, 2023 13:16:56 GMT -5 nak said:

Now let's push Jingle Bell Rock for #1 LOL

i actually prefer that to the Mariah and Brenda songs but the singer Bobby Helms died in 1997 and is not alive to promote it.

[JamaicaFunk²]

Dec 4, 2023 13:59:42 GMT -5 jdanton2 said:

Dec 4, 2023 13:16:56 GMT -5 nak said:

Now let's push Jingle Bell Rock for #1 LOL

i actually prefer that to the Mariah and Brenda songs but the singer Bobby Helms died in 1997 and is not alive to promote it.

I won’t give up on George!

[Envoirment]

I wonder if "Used To Be Young" will manage to get to #1 on overall airplay? It's still chugging along quite nicely on POP/HAC and it should benefit quite a bit on AC in the new year when Christmas songs fall.

In saying that, "Cruel Summer" will likely get a big boost on AC as well. Would be quite insane for "Used To Be Young" to actually get to #1! "Greedy" may also overtakes, although Tate is quickly running out of room to grow on pop (Likely only has another 4-5 million audience to gain, whilst Miley could potentially gain 7-8 there if it gets to #1).

[musiclife]

Dec 4, 2023 13:16:56 GMT -5 nak said:

Now let's push Jingle Bell Rock for #1 LOL

I say we push Underneath The Tree or Christmas Tree Farm. Lol

[avamaxstan]

Yes, Brenda's team pulled some playlisting chicanery to get her to #1. But I'm not really bothered since Christmas music has always been subject to chart manipulation, from all of Mariah's re-releases/new videos/etc to the fact that a huge proportion of Christmas music listening is passive through retail stores and public spaces.

[nak]

Dec 4, 2023 14:33:30 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

Dec 4, 2023 13:16:56 GMT -5 nak said:

Now let's push Jingle Bell Rock for #1 LOL

That's a weird way to spell Last Christmas!

Them too! 

[clsvltn]

Dec 4, 2023 14:32:51 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

Yes, Brenda's team pulled some playlisting chicanery to get her to #1. 

So we have gone from claiming it was the DSPs to now specifically Brenda's team??? 

[thatpolishboy]

In reality, In a few years we could EASILY have a new breakthrough Christmas song come out of nowhere. There's no guarantee in any of the Christmas songs having longevity at the very top.

[avamaxstan]

Dec 4, 2023 14:34:29 GMT -5 clsvltn said:

Dec 4, 2023 14:32:51 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

Yes, Brenda's team pulled some playlisting chicanery to get her to #1. 

So we have gone from claiming it was the DSPs to now specifically Brenda's team??? 

There's no hard proof, no. But Spotify playlisting payola is widespread and the big labels all engage in it. It defies logic that all these very favorable changes occurred in the past week to push RATCT to #1 by coincidence. Mariah is ahead of her on every other metric and platform except Spotify and Pandora, and by far the #1 song globally right now.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2023 14:34:29 GMT -5 clsvltn said:

Dec 4, 2023 14:32:51 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

Yes, Brenda's team pulled some playlisting chicanery to get her to #1. 

So we have gone from claiming it was the DSPs to now specifically Brenda's team??? 

Their power omg 

it's probably a UMG Vs. Sony thing more than anything else

[Music Fan]

Maybe Mariah's team reached out to all streamers and told them to remove Brenda's song from all playlists... and instead of doing that, they all responded by moving Mariah's song.

^^Just like all the theories in this and last week's Hot 100 thread, the above could or could not be true (it's probably not) but the point is we don't know why things happened. So, let's just get Brenda to #1 and hopefully Billboard makes a rule that stops clogging these damn charts.

[otaviohmg]

This may sound insane coming from my fingertips but there's a real possibility of almost the entire Top 70-75 being occupied by holiday songs. Another load of singers is releasing covers in partnership with Amazon and other classics will be revived.

[fridayteenage]

i wonder why kelly does notably better on apple than spotify.

3rd-5th highest female holiday songs, apple:
9 kelly
15 ariana
26 ronettes

spotify:
14 ariana
18 ronettes
21 kelly

[badrobot]

I do not think that there were any nefarious tactics to get RATCT to #1.

I do, however, think there is a very valid argument to be made about the lack of transparency around playlisting and the algorithms behind how songs are pushed to users. The way payola went from being an illegal scandal to just common practice via more modern methods is really a travesty. Some regulation and clear disclosures around paid placements should be enacted.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 4, 2023 15:21:40 GMT -5 badrobot said:

I do not think that there were any nefarious tactics to get RATCT to #1.

So you think all of a sudden and at once Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and Pandora randomly and coincidentally decided to move "RATCT" up on their holiday playlists, remove "AIWFICY" from one or more of them, and, in the case of Spotify, add "RATCT" to a non-holiday playlist with songs by younger artists?

[HolidayGuy]

^Are listeners being forced to listen to the song>? As said in other threads, for most acts with good playlist placement, that doesn't happen randomly.

On another note- like radio and the ability to change the station, one can skip a track on a playlist and click another if they like. People, in general, seem to like "Rockin..." and enjoy it enough to let it play when it comes on. Plus, it's not even trailing "All I Want..." by a heckuva lot in airplay and sales.

Wjhy can't people just be happy to see a song, 65 years in, reaching the pole position, that has been consistently popular, and gaining popularity, in the last five years or so? All the complaining about questionable tactics and such is giving 2020 Election Fraud vibes.

[fridayteenage]

vibes

[groovetheory]

Dec 4, 2023 15:33:07 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Dec 4, 2023 15:21:40 GMT -5 badrobot said:

I do not think that there were any nefarious tactics to get RATCT to #1.

in the case of Spotify, add "RATCT" to a non-holiday playlist with songs by younger artists?

OMG did this really happen? What playlist?

[Juanca]

Dec 4, 2023 15:33:07 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Dec 4, 2023 15:21:40 GMT -5 badrobot said:

I do not think that there were any nefarious tactics to get RATCT to #1.

So you think all of a sudden and at once Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and Pandora randomly and coincidentally decided to move "RATCT" up on their holiday playlists, remove "AIWFICY" from one or more of them, and, in the case of Spotify, add "RATCT" to a non-holiday playlist with songs by younger artists?

Man, have you even checked the Teen Beats playlist?????
I see:
#14 Winter wonderland - Laufey
#19 Christmas Tree Farm -Taylor Swift
#21 Santa doesn’t know you like I do - Sabrina carpenter
#40 Rockin’ around the Christmas tree

So it’s not a non-holiday playlist. It’s a random playlist that includes stuff like Murder on the dancefloor and Elastic heart in the top 40 Copacabana further down the playlist. Mariah doesn’t have to be in every single playlist where a Christmas song is included
And she doesn’t have to be the first Christmas song played in any Christmas playlist. I found it even fishier that such a favoritism has occurred since streaming began…. I’d say that oldies like Holly Jolly, or even one of the best selling singles of all time like White Christmas would’ve been on top, or RATCT over AIWFCIY.
This year is the first one when Brenda has done something, and she’s joined tik tok, sang in an airplane, filmed a video, made interviews -and still not as much as Mariah has done in the past- so it’s natural that with promotion she’d receive more support in playlists. What’s so wrong or nefarious about that? I’d find it concerning if promo wouldn’t translate in better streaming including playlisting.

[groovetheory]

It is a bit naive to think the Tiktok account and the interviews made this happen. If they were of any help, why did this all of a sudden happen this week?

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

People are actually mad that RATCT was moved ahead of AIWFCIY on streaming playlists 😫😫

[Az Paynter]

Has Brenda not been inching closer to Mariah every year for the past several years? Isn't it interesting that the conspiracy theories only just started flying now that Brenda finally hit that tipping point. Stan-coloured glasses are WILD.

[jenglisbe]

Dec 4, 2023 18:30:05 GMT -5 Az Paynter said:

Has Brenda not been inching closer to Mariah every year for the past several years? Isn't it interesting that the conspiracy theories only just started flying now that Brenda finally hit that tipping point. Stan-coloured glasses are WILD.

You note that it's been inching closer, yet then wonder why people would question it catapulting past it for the season? We aren't talking about it squeaking out a week at #1, which would have made sense and I actually thought would happen last year. We're talking about "RATCT" suddenly being raised on every major streaming platform and then having the biggest gains its ever seen (something like a 3000% increase on Pandora) to then seemingly not only overtake "AIWFCIY" but to now take a huge lead it looks to carry through the entire season. If anything what you said is further proof that something shady went on, because if things had continued the way they had been going "RATCT" would have inched past "AIWFCIY" the week of Christmas. There wouldn't have been any drama either because we all thought that was likely coming.

Hell just look at how predictions early in the week had "AIWFCIY" at #1 by a small margin, then later in the week it was a tie, and then in final predictions "RATCT" was barely ahead. But then when final numbers came out "RATCT" was actually fairly far ahead. That all shows it had sudden, significant gains at the end of the chart week. Those huge gains don't align with any sort of "inching closer." Nothing I have been stating is "WILD" and I don't appreciate your statement. We are literally looking at factual evidence.

[chartfreak]

Let's hope next year that labels do for other Christmas songs as they did for Brenda.

And isn't the only factual evidence is that Brenda received better playlisting.

[Acid Eyes]

Everyone's flustered about Brenda vs. Mariah.

Meanwhile, y'all should be grateful Taylor chose to release YLM midweek instead of on a Friday

[jenglisbe]

Dec 4, 2023 21:00:43 GMT -5 chartfreak said:

Let's hope next year that labels do for other Christmas songs as they did for Brenda.

It's possible, which could make things interesting at any rate. "AIWFCIY" and "Last Christmas" are Sony, while the other contenders are Universal so it could also be which song they choose to highlight. Does another Universal song have an anniversary coming up?

And isn't the only factual evidence is that Brenda received better playlisting.

That's very much an oversimplification, but this has all been well-explained in this chart thread and the previous one, so anyone still asking for explanation is just being purposely obtuse.

[Gary]

Anyone who follows this sort of thing are aware of both songs. people can choose what they want to stream - regardless of placement of playlists

The first time ever video for the song and extra appearances seem to be helping, I think


The final streaming numbers: Brenda Lee 34.9 (up 69%), Mariah 32.4 (up 47%)
Airplay Mariah leads 21.5 to 20.7
Sales Mariah 4000 to 3000 in favor of Mariah

Not sure we need to convene a congressional hearing or something here - things looked pretty close