Billboard Hot 100: 10/05/2024

[kcdawg13]

143 doing worse than Smile is something I never expected, especially since she had way more momentum going into this era than her last. I can't believe how many tweets this past year I read about people being hyped for the next album, calling her the queen of pop and all that stuff. Woman's World and the Dr. Luke connection really ruined her reputation among pop stans, meanwhile the GP didn't show out like her last couple records so now she has nobody.

I listened to the album and I don't think it deserves all the harsh reviews, because it isn't really a bad album it's just an aggressively mediocre album, it's pure background noise. I've gone on record here saying I actually found Smile to be a pretty good album minus a couple songs and I stand by that, I think if she continued down that lane but with less filler she could've at least given us a classic pop album even without the commercial success but instead we got a flop album that's also terrible, great work Katy! I really think she's over for real, there's no commercial comeback for her, the curtains have closed on her hit making career officially.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

The trajectory of their careers yes, a huge success and suddenly a big fall, BUT success-wise, Paula was never on Katy's level (TD era alone has the same amount of #1s and top 10s as Paula's career), she's much closer to Kesha I'd say.

[fridayteenage]

Forever Your Girl spent 64 weeks in the top 10.

When will Katy's entire career? If I counted correctly, she's fighting to get half of that.

[sedrickwilhelm]

The difference of Apple Music and Spotify is really crazy. Future is still holding and dominating the whole top 10 songs on Apple but on Spotify is barely breaking into the top 10 with one track. Such a huge difference. Does it have to do with Spotify being free? I know that it has been determined that Spotify has more of a 'pop-head' base while Apple Music has a bit more of a 'hip-hop-head' base going on, so I guess that's it. But such a stark contrast, still.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Sept 22, 2024 9:44:37 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

Forever Your Girl spent 64 weeks in the top 10.

When will Katy's entire career? If I counted correctly, she's fighting to get half of that.

okay? this is so random. 


weeks on the Billboard 200:

Teenage Dream - 390 weeks
Paula Abdul's career: 3 albums - 263 weeks

This is a pointless conversation.

[neogale]

Sept 22, 2024 9:26:49 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

The trajectory of their careers yes, a huge success and suddenly a big fall, BUT success-wise, Paula was never on Katy's level (TD era alone has the same amount of #1s and top 10s as Paula's career), she's much closer to Kesha I'd say.

Yeah, exactly. Like, it's pretty obvious Katy's sucess was beyond that of Paula's. Comparing it to her feels disingenuous, specially when there are other pop girls of around the same time period with that fits the comparison better (like Kesha for now).

[fridayteenage]

Sept 22, 2024 10:44:29 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

Sept 22, 2024 9:44:37 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

Forever Your Girl spent 64 weeks in the top 10.

When will Katy's entire career? If I counted correctly, she's fighting to get half of that.

okay? this is so random. 


weeks on the Billboard 200:

Teenage Dream - 390 weeks
Paula Abdul's career: 3 albums - 263 weeks

This is a pointless conversation.

that's a really dumb metric when we're in the streaming era and it's easy to be #199 or whatever.

www.billboard.com/charts/greatest-billboard-200-albums-by-women/
#10 Forever Your Girl
#58 Td

[shakemaki]

I think the Paula comparison for Katy is pretty accurate if you just ignore Katy’s debut era success. Paula basically came out of the gate with her Teenage Dream and then went into her Prism. And then the big drop off. So the OOTB era is really all Katy has over her.

[iHype.]

This whole comparison is redundant, but Katy's success has never been that comparable to Paula for me. Mainly because Paula's music career is completely forgotten overall and a product of a very short-lived industry 3 year~ phase.

Regardless of how bad Katy flops now, she has some of the biggest classic singles of this century. Paula does not have any singles that are as colossal long-term as songs like Firework, Roar, etc. Katy also had more longevity as a big name and wasn't just relevant in a temporary phase, she had a decent shelf life for a popstar.

The comparisons will never be 1:1 but yeah, Paula was moreso similar to Kesha imo. Kesha's huge string of 2009-2012 singles is mostly not that remembered and a symbol of the short-lived badly aged trend of trashy club hits from the likes of LMFAO, Flo Rida, Pitbull, and others.

[shakemaki]

It is comparable simply from a success standpoint though, again minus Katy’s debut era.

Teenage Dream and Forever Your Girl both had 5 juggernaut chart hits. TD had a 6th hit (though I wouldn’t say juggernaut), but FYGdidn’t get a 6th single to have that chance. The deluxe tracks are basically from a different album, since they only got tacked onto TD since Katy wasn’t ready to make a new album yet.

Then Prism and Spellbound both had 2 juggernaut chart hits, and actually the remaining 3 singles from Spellbound handily beat the other 3 from Prism in terms of success. So Katy slightly wins the TD v FYG battle and Paula slightly wins the Prism v SB battle. Then huge drop in success for both of them after that, with their days as a relevant pop star basically being over.

Again, OOTB era for Katy and Katy not quitting music like Paula did are the big differences from just a success standpoint. Kesha never had the level of success of Paula’s first two eras, so I don’t think that works. I don’t think people realize what a massive deal the FYG era’s success was at the time. Only Janet and Ryhthm Nation had ever done anything comparable for a female album.

[iHype.]

Sept 22, 2024 13:25:31 GMT -5 shakemaki said:

It is comparable simply from a success standpoint though, again minus Katy’s debut era.

Teenage Dream and Forever Your Girl both had 5 juggernaut chart hits. TD had a 6th hit (though I wouldn’t say juggernaut), but FG didn’t get a 6th single to have that chance. The deluxe tracks are basically from a different album, since they only got tacked onto TD since Katy wasn’t ready to make a new album yet.

Then Prism and Spellbound both had 2 juggernaut chart hits, and actually the remaining 3 singles from Spellbound handily beat the other 3 from Prism in terms of success. So Katy slightly wins the TD v FG battle and Paula slightly wins the Prism v SB battle. Then huge drop in success for both of them after that, with their days as a relevant pop star basically being over.

Again, OOTB era for Katy and Katy not quitting music like Paula did are the big differences from just a success standpoint. Kesha never had the level of success of Paula’s first two eras, so I don’t think that works.

It really isn't that comparable from a success standpoint. Hence why you all keep purposely excluding OOTB to fit this narrative lol.

Meanwhile, Kesha's Animal+Cannibal → Warrior is more comparable to Forever Your Girl → Spellbound, and then both neither got a real big chart hit in subsequent eras ever again.

Paula's entire sophomore era was a fluke after the lead single Rush Rush (similar to Kesha's sophomore after Die Young). The Promise Of A New Day is a chart manipulated hit at its finest. 

Katy was getting notable hits for about a decade and performed at the SuperBowl, covered Forbes, and was Billboard's Top Female Artist after her third era. 

[shakemaki]

Absolutely not with Kesha’s debut eras. Again, FYG was the 2nd biggest female album success ever up to that point, after Rhythm Nation, and it remains one of the most successful female eras of all time. It was absolutely equivalent to what the TD era was for Katy at the time. Considering TD was still in an era where you could sell albums, one could argue that the lackluster album sales for TD make FYG still ultimately the bigger success.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Sept 22, 2024 13:07:40 GMT -5 iHype. said:

This whole comparison is redundant, but Katy's success has never been that comparable to Paula for me. Mainly because Paula's music career is completely forgotten overall and a product of a very short-lived industry 3 year~ phase.

Regardless of how bad Katy flops now, she has some of the biggest classic singles of this century. Paula does not have any singles that are as colossal long-term as songs like Firework, Roar, etc. Katy also had more longevity as a big name and wasn't just relevant in a temporary phase, she had a decent shelf life for a popstar.

The comparisons will never be 1:1 but yeah, Paula was moreso similar to Kesha imo. Kesha's huge string of 2009-2012 singles is mostly not that remembered and a symbol of the short-lived badly aged trend of trashy club hits from the likes of LMFAO, Flo Rida, Pitbull, and others.

yes. Unfortunately, most people don't even remember Paula, you can really tell by her Spotify numbers: 113k daily streams, 300M overall. Also, during her prime, I don't think she was HUGE globally? maybe 3 big hits? I'm pretty sure none of my friends know who she is, maybe, but big maybe, one or two of them would recognize Straight Up.

EDIT: Forever Your Girl bigger than Teenage Dream? You can read everything on this site.

[shakemaki]

FYG is a 34 year old album. TD is 14. Give it 20 years and how do we know Katy won’t be just as “forgotten” by the young gens as Paula now? I would argue she is very much on that trajectory already. I don’t think alphas are familiar with her music at all really tbh

[shakemaki]

The fact that both Paula and Katy were never taken seriously as artists and kinda crapped on critically is another parallel. Kesha has definitely gotten a lot more acclaim than either, especially for her songwriting abilities. I really don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say Katy is her gen’s equivalent of Paula.

[iHype.]

Sept 22, 2024 13:31:49 GMT -5 shakemaki said:

Absolutely not with Kesha’s debut eras. Again, FYG was the 2nd biggest female album success ever up to that point, after Rhythm Nation, and it remains one of the most successful female eras of all time. It was absolutely equivalent to what the TD era was for Katy at the time. Considering TD was still in an era where you could sell albums, one could argue that the lackluster album sales for TD make FYG still ultimately the bigger success.

Every big album in the late 80s was having 5, 6, or 7 chart hits. Forever Your Girl truthfully isn't some huge outlier for a successful era in the late 80s in sales or in legacy. Y'all are overrating tf out of that album lmao.

Whitney, Madonna, Janet, Mariah, Prince, Michael, George, Bruce, etc all ultimately had bigger and more defining albums than that Paula album despite whatever chart run it did at peak chart manipulation.

That album was sitting in the clearance bin after its run and never revisited again by the public. Teenage Dream is still regularly charting, seen as a staple album of this century, with huge recurrent hits 15 years later.

Forever Your Girl was much more similar to Animal+Cannibal, which ultimately pales in memory compared to the peak superstar Gaga/Taylor/Katy/Bruno/Rihanna/Adele/Beyonce/etc eras from 2009-2011.

[shakemaki]

I’m talking singles success, especially since that’s all the TD era ultimately boiled down to. As far as singles, what I said remains true. The only other female album to do anything like what FYG did with singles was Rhythm Nation. And there still aren’t many others even today, it’s still way up there in that regard. Kesha had one juggernaut smash and about 3 supporting hits pulled from both an album and a follow up EP. It’s hardly comparable.

And I’ll just say good luck finding those 10-14 year olds viewing TD as some “staple” of modern pop music. I don’t think the bulk of them know it exists. Katy’s relevance is absolutely in danger with Gen Alpha and onward, much like Paula’s ultimately ended up being with millennials and onward.

[Khia]

If you're comparing career trajectories, you can't really just exclude an entire successful era for one artist...

Katy had top ten hits from 2008-2017. Paula had top ten hits from 1989-1991. Katy had a top 20 hit 11 years into her career. They aren't all that comparable. And why do they need to be? There doesn't have to be a parallel for everyone.

[iHype.]

Sept 22, 2024 13:50:18 GMT -5 shakemaki said:

 Kesha had one juggernaut smash and about 3 supporting hits pulled from both an album and a follow up EP. It’s hardly comparable.

Tik Tok - #1
Blah Blah Blah - #7
Your Love Is My Drug - #4 (#1 Pop radio)
Take It Off - #8
We R Who We R - #1
Blow - #7

+ My First Kiss - #9
+ Right Round - #1 prior to era 

[shakemaki]

Sept 22, 2024 13:54:31 GMT -5 Khia said:

If you're comparing career trajectories, you can't really just exclude an entire successful era for one artist...

Katy had top ten hits from 2008-2017. Paula had top ten hits from 1989-1991. Katy had a top 20 hit 11 years into her career. They aren't all that comparable. And why do they need to be? There doesn't have to be a parallel for everyone.

And that’s why I said all along it’s not a *perfect* parallel. It is really the best one though. There are a ton of similarities, minus OOTB, which no Paula did not have an equivalent.

[avamaxstan]

Sept 22, 2024 9:24:36 GMT -5 kcdawg13 said:

I really think she's over for real, there's no commercial comeback for her, the curtains have closed on her hit making career officially.

Yep. She's completely done. The irony that a few months ago, we were thinking this would be a career renaissance for her, and instead it turned out to be her career funeral.

[fridayteenage]

Greatest of All Time Billboard 200 Albums by Women
1

21
Adele
2

Fearless
Taylor Swift
3

Jagged Little Pill
Alanis Morissette
4

Tapestry
Carole King
5

1989
Taylor Swift
6

Whitney Houston
Whitney Houston
7

The Fame
Lady Gaga
8

Come On Over
Shania Twain
9

Taylor Swift
Taylor Swift
10

Forever Your Girl
Paula Abdul

[Khia]

Sept 22, 2024 14:02:16 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

Greatest of All Time Billboard 200 Albums by Women

You already posted this a couple of hours ago.

[shakemaki]

Katy was just BARELY able to crack Billboard’s top 25 pop stars of the 21st century list, with artists who aren’t even pop stars ranking above her. If that doesn’t say it all about her fading relevancy, what does? The Paula comparison is seeming more accurate by the year.

[avamaxstan]

I swear someone better hack into Billboard servers and delete Lose Control

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Radio, PLS PLS PLS drop Espresso already, it's Taste's time to shine.

[iHype.]

Sept 22, 2024 13:33:47 GMT -5 Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ said:

Sept 22, 2024 13:07:40 GMT -5 iHype. said:

This whole comparison is redundant, but Katy's success has never been that comparable to Paula for me. Mainly because Paula's music career is completely forgotten overall and a product of a very short-lived industry 3 year~ phase.

Regardless of how bad Katy flops now, she has some of the biggest classic singles of this century. Paula does not have any singles that are as colossal long-term as songs like Firework, Roar, etc. Katy also had more longevity as a big name and wasn't just relevant in a temporary phase, she had a decent shelf life for a popstar.

The comparisons will never be 1:1 but yeah, Paula was moreso similar to Kesha imo. Kesha's huge string of 2009-2012 singles is mostly not that remembered and a symbol of the short-lived badly aged trend of trashy club hits from the likes of LMFAO, Flo Rida, Pitbull, and others.

yes. Unfortunately, most people don't even remember Paula, you can really tell by her Spotify numbers: 113k daily streams, 300M overall. Also, during her prime, I don't think she was HUGE globally? maybe 3 big hits? I'm pretty sure none of my friends know who she is, maybe, but big maybe, one or two of them would recognize Straight Up.

EDIT: Forever Your Girl bigger than Teenage Dream? You can read everything on this site.

Paula's prime was also during peak chart manipulation so. Teenage Dream's singles were legit massive and the biggest hits of their years, and in a world with electronic data I don't believe Paula's single success would've been ranked similarly as high whatsoever. 

Paula Hot 100 #1 "The Promise Of A New Day": 3 million total Spotify streams
Paula Hot 100 #1 "Forever Your Girl": 7 million total Spotify streams

I mean even Whitney, MJ, Madonna, Prince, Mariah, etc have album tracks and some of their most unknown singles with more streams lmao. That is why impyling Katy/Paula had similar success comes off highkey insulting to Katy imo.

[Khia]

Sept 22, 2024 14:06:06 GMT -5 shakemaki said:

Katy was just BARELY able to crack Billboard’s top 25 pop stars of the 21st century list, with artists who aren’t even pop stars ranking above her. If that doesn’t say it all about her fading relevancy, what does? The Paula comparison is seeming more accurate by the year.

Right, because one list created by Billboard staff (so, based on opinion) says it all.

[fridayteenage]

espresso is winning on apple and youtube too.

it's gonna be please please please being dropped first.

[shakemaki]

Sept 22, 2024 13:55:46 GMT -5 iHype. said:

Sept 22, 2024 13:50:18 GMT -5 shakemaki said:

 Kesha had one juggernaut smash and about 3 supporting hits pulled from both an album and a follow up EP. It’s hardly comparable.

Tik Tok - #1
Blah Blah Blah - #7
Your Love Is My Drug - #4 (#1 Pop radio)
Take It Off - #8
We R Who We R - #1
Blow - #7

+ My First Kiss - #9
+ Right Round - #1 prior to era 

I mean, surely I don’t have to spell it out why an album + an ep is not a good comparison to just one album right? Not to mention songs that aren’t a part of either (Kesha remains uncredited on RR to this day btw).

Also, the BBB h100 peak is wildly deceptive if you were around for that song’s run. It definitely was not any kind of “hit” overall, and in fact a lot of people at the time were already chicken little-ing “the sky is falling!” with her that she was gonna be a one hit wonder with BBB’s run.