Billboard Hot 100: 11/10/12

[chartfreak]

The overall total is affected though...I think thats what people are confused about. If total sales the prior week were 500k to date and then it lost 100k in sales the following week (if total was negative) then its new total YTD would be 400k.

[BlueSwan]

Oct 31, 2012 12:17:38 GMT -5 KeepDeanWeird said:

"Style" is also the first song to spend six weeks at No. 2 on the Hot 100 without ascending to the summit since Maroon 5's previous single, "Payphone," featuring Wiz Khalifa, peaked at the runner-up spot for six weeks in May/July/August.

Typical BB nonsense stats. "The first song" since August.... Really?

Yeah, we actually had several WEEKS with songs at #2 that didn't manage to stay there for six weeks. Call Guinness quick!

[Enigma.]

It's quite clear to me and fair as well in digital age, if you complete the single to album, it's an album sale and should be subtracted from single's total sales.

And there will probably be people who don't use the "complete my album" thing and buy both, like in ancient times when singles and albums were both released physically.

[Rodze]

Oct 31, 2012 13:52:39 GMT -5 Lozzy said:

Oct 31, 2012 13:47:39 GMT -5 Rodze said:

"Complete my album" only affects this week's sales, even to the point they become negative.

The total isn't changed because of "complete my album".

new total = last week total + this week's sales

Always that.*

If it so happens "this week's sales" is a negative number, then, by the Mathematics we know and use, yeah, "new total" will be lower than "last week total".

*Excluding adjustments made by SoundScan for whatever reason.

Do you have an official source for this? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to have some proper documentation if possible since it's always been a confusing issue.

I don't have an official source for that formula, no. Only observing the sales numbers.

Oct 31, 2012 14:01:07 GMT -5 chartfreak said:

The overall total is affected though...I think thats what people are confused about. If total sales the prior week were 500k to date and then it lost 100k in sales the following week (if total was negative) then its new total YTD would be 400k.

Yes, the total is affected because the total is affected every week.

My point is that SoundScan (from what we have seen) does not remove sales from the total, it removes sales from this week.

Let's say, a song has sold 500 copies to date. This week it sold 100 more, but 150 were returned (complete my album).

What SoundScan shows is:

This week sales: -50 (100-150)
Total: 450 (500-50)

It's not:

This week sales: 100
Total: 450 (500+100-150)

I realize the end result for the total is the same, but the way to get there is different.

Again, SoundScan can make adjustments any time they want, even including actually removing sales from the total.

[josh]

Ok, with the numbers I see what you mean.

[peterca]

Humm, in the case of WANEGBT, say 200k completed the album and the single sold 110k this week. Would the net sales be -90k and this number be used (negatively) in computing its chart rankings?

or... would Soundscan use zero for sales and compute the chart rankings, and then subtract the rest (90k in this case) the following week until all subtraction has been completed?

[Enigma.]

-90k turned into points, yes

and then -90 to its total

Am I right?

[Au$tin]

Yes. This is what causes lead singles to drop signifcantly during their album's release. In fact, this year, "Boyfriend" by Bieber dropped from #10 to #18 the week of the album's release. I am sure WANEGBT will fall below #15 as well. Possibly even below #20.

HIAM also experienced the same issue. It fell from #52 to #75, only to return to #59 the week after.

I believe BTW did as well. #24, then #42, then #37.

Both of those are a bit harder to determine, though, because both songs were already dying quickly by the time the album was released. You will notice that the bigger the album hype is, the harder the lead single will drop during the album's release week. This is why songs like WFL, CG, POM, BM(OLK), and OG(ITW) did not have large losses on their respective album's releases. [Plus, let's not forget airplay and streaming can make up for any sales loss if it's high enough. Which will hinder WANEGBT since its streaming is low and IKYWT isn't available for streaming.]

[Lozzy]

I'm glad we have airplay and streaming to soften the album release week drops. "Blow Me (One Last Kiss)" fell from #16 to completely off the top 100 in Australia when her album came out.

[neverduplicated]

Whilst I agree with the principal of subtracting "returns" from a song's total sales, I actually don't think that song's weekly positions on the charts should be affected by these negative sales. The whole point of the Hot 100 is to measure the most popular songs in the country in a given week. I think that without question "We Are Never Getting Back Together" was among the ten most popular songs in the country in the past week, therefore it should be in the top 10. And I'm not at all saying this because I'm a Taylor fan. I don't really care how many weeks she gets in the top 10. I just think that under this methodology, the most popular songs of the week are not being reflected in the charts.

[josh]

WANEGBT was #14 last week on streaming. I wouldn't call that "low"

[Libra]

Oct 31, 2012 15:00:04 GMT -5 neverduplicated said:

Whilst I agree with the principal of subtracting "returns" from a song's total sales, I actually don't think that song's weekly positions on the charts should be affected by these negative sales. The whole point of the Hot 100 is to measure the most popular songs in the country in a given week. I think that without question "We Are Never Getting Back Together" was among the ten most popular songs in the country in the past week, therefore it should be in the top 10. And I'm not at all saying this because I'm a Taylor fan. I don't really care how many weeks she gets in the top 10. I just think that under this methodology, the most popular songs of the week are not being reflected in the charts.

I actually agree with this, since the sole reason for a song's drop the week of the album release would be due to the chart's cumulative mathematical formulas.

Having said that, however...what exactly would the remedy for this be? What would BB have to do to balance both the sales penalty from "Complete My Album", and a song's then-current popularity, in the chart formula?

[Rodze]

Oct 31, 2012 14:28:10 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

-90k turned into points, yes

and then -90 to its total

Am I right?

That I have no idea -- if Billboard uses negative points in their Hot 100 formula.

It doesn't seem it's explained in the Ask Billboard posted, so maybe someone should ask them.

[imbondz]

I will be so happy if GS never goes to #1. suuuuuuch a cheesy song

[areyoureadytojump]

Female acts with the most top five Hot 100 hits:

1. Madonna 28
2. Mariah Carey 26
3. Janet Jackson 24
4. Whitney Houston 19
5. Rihanna 16 *new*

[Deleted]

If WANEGBT was really that affected this week, then could Blown Away actually hit #1 on Country Songs (the new chart)? Up until Sunday (the end of the tracking week), it was #1 in airplay for 2 weeks and its sales movements have been in the upper ~50-60k range.

[popstop]

Oct 31, 2012 15:32:15 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Female acts with the most top five Hot 100 hits:

1. Madonna 28
2. Mariah Carey 26
3. Janet Jackson 24
4. Whitney Houston 19
5. Rihanna 16 *new*

Who did Rihanna replace?

[KeepDeanWeird]

Oct 31, 2012 15:39:56 GMT -5 @14887fan said:

If WANEGBT was really that affected this week, then could Blown Away actually hit #1 on Country Songs (the new chart)? Up until Sunday (the end of the tracking week), it was #1 in airplay for 2 weeks and its sales movements have been in the upper ~50-60k range.

I posted the exact same thing in BA forum in Country. It would be awesome if it happened since CU was the one most screwed by new formula.

[Envoirment]

Oct 31, 2012 15:46:46 GMT -5 popstop said:

Oct 31, 2012 15:32:15 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Female acts with the most top five Hot 100 hits:

1. Madonna 28
2. Mariah Carey 26
3. Janet Jackson 24
4. Whitney Houston 19
5. Rihanna 16 *new*

Who did Rihanna replace?

Beyoncé has 13. I can't seem to find anyone with more than that at the moment though. I'll keep looking.

[fridayteenage]

Country Digital: 1. I Almost Do, 3. All Too Well, 5. Stay Stay, 8. Treacherous, 9. Starlight
2. Cruise, 4. Blown Away, 7. Wanted
6. Fade Into You, 10. If I Didn't Know Better (from Nashville) - Better was #7 last week.

From Roughstock

Apparently 8 RED songs charted, with the 3 pre-album-release songs absent. So BB determined 11 songs to be country.
They rejected Trouble, State of Grace...probably Everything Has Changed. And maybe Last Time? I thought Last Time & Lucky One were both more pop than Everything, but I'm not in charge.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

I guess Taylor may have a hard time staying #1 on country singles this week.

[Spidey]

Oct 31, 2012 16:18:41 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

I guess Taylor may have a hard time staying #1 on country singles this week.

Hopefully "Blown Away" takes the No. 1 spot this week.

[Au$tin]

Oct 31, 2012 15:06:31 GMT -5 josh said:

WANEGBT was #14 last week on streaming. I wouldn't call that "low"

But had it been released when it came out, it would definitely be top 5.

[Envoirment]

Oct 31, 2012 16:34:21 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

What if we were in a situation that had the #1 radio & #1 streaming song not be in the T10 because of negative points?

Then the billboard article will just reference "due to album release, the complete my album feature on itunes causes "insert song here" to have negative sales, causing the points to decrease" or something along those lines. I'm sure they will count negative points as well. Otherwise it means sales have no influence on the song's position if you were to make them 0. It's not like this is a serious issue and that radio execs will go "It had negative sales?! We must stop spinning this immediatley!".

[👑 Eloquent ™]

So many people were labeling the new Hot Country Songs chart irrelevant a few weeks ago. I don't understand why now that Carrie could be poised to take the pole position that it's suddenly relevant again. I hope she makes it with the song ,as it's top tier, but I don't get the logic there. lol

[popstop]

I don't know about irrelevant. I think it's a fantastic idea to incorporate sales into those charts especially since they can be so stagnant. I think people are upset because crossover airplay is included, and crossover songs can lend themselves to being less "country" or "r&b" or whatever. Crossover hits sometimes have pop remixes, or in the case of WANEGBT, a "country" remix of the pop song. I think it means that for some people, they will find some questionable inclusions/positions on the chart.

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2012 17:04:08 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

So many people were labeling the new Hot Country Songs chart irrelevant a few weeks ago. I don't understand why now that Carrie could be poised to take the pole position that it's suddenly relevant again. I hope she makes it with the song ,as it's top tier, but I don't get the logic there. lol

I completely agree.

I seem to remember you saying you liked the chart, and that's totally fine. I, personally, do not. So I could care less whether Carrie's BA knocks off Taylor's WANEGBT there. There's all kinds of weird things going on there, like the potential for negative sales, and you just can't predict that chart.

It seems that most people here seem to think Taylor's gonna have negative sales, and I guess I won't pretend to understand that I know what is and isn't true--I thought I'd read a while back that Billboard only adjusts the overall sales totals and does not do individual negative sales weeks, but maybe it's the opposite.

Anyway, in the case that Taylor does get negative sales this week for WANEGBT, I also must point out that it's simply not Carrie vs. Taylor. Lee Brice's "Hard To Love" is selling very well and has more airplay, and the bigger threat might be Florida Georgia Line's "Cruise", which has the highest sales (even more than BA) and is only slightly lower on airplay...plus, I think that one is doing very well in streaming points.

In the end, I don't really care though. I follow the airplay-only charts and sales numbers and like to keep them separate. I just find it funny that suddenly, people who hated the new genre charts might be ok with them just because of who is at #1. I like Taylor, I like Carrie, I like all kinds of country singers...so I didn't care that Taylor was #1. It's the methodology of the new chart that bothered me, whereas it looks like a lot of other people were simply irked that Taylor was #1 when they didn't think she should be.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I don't think totals should be removed to impact a single's performance on the Hot 100 either. Album sales shouldn't influence single sales, especially when it takes away from performance of a song that is otherwise likely more popular during release week than the weeks leading up to it. I think even if people do "complete my album", that the singles they bought before should stand. Remove the overall total of course, but don't let it actually have it impact for the week of.

[Au$tin]

The only problem is now the total points on the Hot 100 does not work out correctly.

[Libra]

I have the answer to this question:

Oct 31, 2012 15:32:15 GMT -5 areyoureadytojump said:

Female acts with the most top five Hot 100 hits:

1. Madonna 28
2. Mariah Carey 26
3. Janet Jackson 24
4. Whitney Houston 19
5. Rihanna 16 *new*

Oct 31, 2012 16:14:19 GMT -5 Envoirment said:

Oct 31, 2012 15:46:46 GMT -5 popstop said:

Who did Rihanna replace?

Beyoncé has 13. I can't seem to find anyone with more than that at the moment though. I'll keep looking.

The key to this answer is that the category is female acts, not necessarily female solo artists. It was The Supremes who had 15:

#1s - Where Did Our Love Go, Baby Love, Come See About Me, Stop! In the Name of Love, Back in My Arms Again, I Hear a Symphony, You Can't Hurry Love, You Keep Me Hangin' On, Love is Here and Now You're Gone, The Happening, Love Child, Someday We'll Be Together
#2 - Reflections, I'm Gonna Make You Love Me
#5 - My World is Empty Without You

It's worth noting that were you to combine the totals for Diana Ross and The Supremes (meaning her total and their 15), along with those for Beyonce and Destiny's Child, both Diana and Beyonce would be tied with 22 apiece, and both ahead of Whitney.